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The truth about the dbrand Grip...

The truth about the dbrand Grip...
Grips. Let's talk about 'em.
If you've spent any amount of time on this subreddit, you've likely seen at least one post about a Grip case that has fallen apart. Most of you have seen several. We know this because we've seen every single one. We’d like to see less of them. Ideally, none.
Over the past 18 months, we’ve been on an odyssey to fix the underlying problem. What follows is a chronicle of that journey.
Our objectives in writing this post are three-fold. There will be a tl;dr version at the end of this post, summarizing each of the three:
  1. Offer an in-depth technical explanation as to why Grip cases fall apart.
  2. Outline the improvements we've made to the Grip case to mitigate and eventually solve the issue.
  3. Provide some much-needed context as to how widespread the issue truly is, and what our next steps are for affected Grip SKUs.
Since you're still here, you must be in it for the long haul. Assuming an average reading speed of 250 words per minute, this is going to take you nearly 24 minutes to get through. We'll try to make it the most informative 24 minutes of your life. Let's get started.

PART ONE

Why Do Grips Fall Apart?
Most phone cases are made out of a single material. The material itself varies from case to case, though the most common is Thermoplastic Polyurethane (TPU). The Grip case, as a point of comparison, is made of two different materials: an elastomer and a polycarbonate.
The word elastomer is a combination of the words elastic and polymer. That's because it describes polymers that have elastic properties - like the one that forms the outer rim of your Grip case. The elastomer that we use is responsible for two critical properties of the Grip case: impact protection and grip.
If you fell off of a rooftop, would you rather land on a hard plastic surface, or a rubber surface? If you value your life at all, you'd choose the rubber - its elastic properties would absorb much more force from the impact. Guess what rubber is? First one to answer "an elastomer" wins a prize!
Next, imagine you’re a pervert, gently running your finger across every surface of a No. 2 Pencil. Which part of the pencil do you think would provide the most resistance to the tracing of your finger? If you guessed "the eraser," congratulations: you possess a basic understanding of coefficients of friction. Erasers are made of rubber. Rubber has a high coefficient of friction because of its elastic properties.
The Grip case's elastomer isn't rubber - it's our own specially-formulated compound. It's still a useful comparison, as all elastomers share similar properties - provided they have the same degree of Shore Hardness.
One person reading this is asking: “Shore Hardness?” The next section is their fault.

A Beginner's Guide to Material Science
The Shore Hardness scale gauges the hardness of various elastomers. It can be measured with a device called a durometer. You probably don't have one.
  • Low Shore Hardness = softer, more malleable, less dense, more rubber-like.
  • High Shore Hardness = harder, less malleable, more dense, more plastic-like.
If you fell out of a building and landed on a rubber surface with a high Shore Hardness, injury or death would be much more likely.
If you used an eraser with a high Shore Hardness, you'd find it wouldn't actually do much erasing.
Now, what if you made a phone case out of an elastomer with a high Shore Hardness? It wouldn't offer much grip or impact protection.
The Grip's outer rim is made from an elastomer with a low Shore Hardness. As a result, the material is grippy and impact-resistant, but much more malleable and thus more likely to deform. That's why we bond the elastomer to a polycarbonate skeleton.
Polycarbonates don't require as much explanation as elastomers: they're a category of plastic. On your Grip case, the back plate is made of polycarbonate. The elastomer rim is bonded to the polycarbonate plate on all sides of the Grip, providing structural rigidity to the elastomer, fighting to keep it from deforming. At least, that's the idea. As we've all seen, it hasn't worked out that way.
Bonding two distinct materials together is much more complicated than gluing them together. Instead, we rely on a thermal bonding process. Basically, that means we heat both of our polymers to a degree which would turn you from “rare” to “well done” in moments. This heat melts the polymers, which we then inject at a pressure which would turn you from “solid” to “paste” even faster.
Once injected, these two materials get fused together along the seams. To further reinforce the bonds, we use a series of interlocking "teeth" to provide a greater surface area on which the bonding process can occur. Consider these teeth the mechanical bond, which exists to strengthen the thermal bond.

Pictured: Bonding mechanic between the elastomer and polycarbonate.
With that out of the way: why do Grips fall apart?
The elastomer rim around the edge of the Grip case is naturally inclined to deform and stretch. The bonding mechanisms we described above are designed to keep that from happening, but it often isn’t strong enough. As soon as the bond fails at any point, it's only a matter of time until a total structural failure occurs.

PART TWO

How Are We Stopping Grips From Falling Apart?
Philosophically, there are two approaches to take:
  1. We can investigate why, exactly, the bond between the elastomer and the polycarbonate is failing.
  2. We can tweak and iterate the thermal and mechanical bond - strengthening it to the point where it's statistically improbable that your case will fall apart.
We tried the first approach - it's the road to madness. The number of variables is irrationally large. What's the temperature like where you live? The altitude? The humidity? Do you bring your phone into environments that deviate from the ambient temperature of your location? Does your school or workplace have extremely dry air? Do you bring your phone into a sauna? What sort of soap do you wash your hands with? Do you have oily hands? What sort of food do you cook? Do you smoke? How hard do you press on the buttons? What's your angle of approach when you actuate a button? How big are your hands? How often do you take your phone out of the case? Do you remove it from the top, the bottom, the sides?
We could follow all of these roads, find out exactly which factors are causing the bond to fail, then implement preventative measures to keep it from happening - but that would take a decade. We don't have that long. Much like you, we want this fixed yesterday.
So, from the moment we received our first complaint about a Grip deforming around the buttons, we've been making structural, thermal, and mechanical improvements to the design and production process of the Grip case - some visible, some not. Every new phone release has brought a new iteration on the core Grip design, with each one reducing the failure rate, incrementally. We'll bring the receipts in the next chapter. For now, let's highlight the most noteworthy improvements.

The Most Noteworthy Improvements
The first signs of trouble were the buttons. Months before we'd received our first report of a Grip case de-bonding, we saw the first examples of buttons that had bent out of shape.

Pictured: Button deformation.
Why the buttons? Because you press down on them. The force from button actuation puts strain on the elastomer, causing displacement of the material in the surrounding area. Through a combination of time, repeated button actuations and the above-mentioned force, the case would permanently deform around the buttons. This concept is called the "compression set" of the elastomer - Google it.
The solution to this problem was two-fold:
  1. First, we increased the compression set of the elastomer. Essentially, we made it as dense as we could, without compromising on the elastic properties of the material.
  2. Second, we added relief slits surrounding the buttons - they're plainly visible on any newer Grip case model. These relief slits are an escape route for the force generated by button actuation. They also had the positive effect of making button actuation significantly more satisfying (read: clicky).

Pictured: Relief slits to improve button tactility and durability.
Another early issue, pre-dating the first reports of total de-bonding, was a deformation of the elastomer along the bottom of the case - where the charging port and speakers are.
Since we've covered the basics on how the interlock between the elastomer and the polycarbonate creates a bond, this is how the interlocking teeth along the top edge of the polycarbonate skeleton of the Grip used to look.

Pictured: First-gen interlocking teeth on the top of the Grip.
...and here's the bottom of that very same Grip case.

Pictured: First-gen interlocking teeth on the bottom of the Grip.
Notice anything? Around the charging port, there is absolutely nothing keeping the elastomer in place. No teeth, no structural reinforcements... it's no coincidence that an overwhelming majority of early Grip deformations happened along the bottom.
Since then, we’ve added a reinforced polycarbonate structure around the bottom of the Grip case. You'll see what that looks like in a bit.
So, why didn't the launch portfolio of Grip cases have mechanical interlocks or a polycarbonate support structure along the bottom?
The answer may or may not be complicated, depending on how much you know about plastic injection molding. We'll assume the worst and explain the concept of "undercut" to you with a ridiculous metaphor.

The Ridiculous Metaphor
Imagine you had a tube full of melted cheese. Next, imagine you emptied that entire tube into your mouth. Rather than swallowing the cheese, you decide to let it sit in your mouth and harden. Why are you doing this? We don't know. Let's just say you want a brick of cheese that's perfectly molded to the contours of your mouth - a very normal thing to want.
So, your mouth is completely filled with cheese. It hardens. You reach into your mouth to remove the brick of cheese. As you're removing it, you encounter a problem: your teeth are in the way. This wasn't a problem when you were putting the cheese into your mouth, but that was because the cheese was melted and could flow around your teeth. Now that the cheese has hardened, this is no longer the case.
In the world of plastic injection molding, this is an undercut. Our concern was that, by molding a structurally rigid piece of polycarbonate around the charging port and speaker holes, we'd find ourselves unable to remove the Grip Case from the mold once hardened. Imagine spending $30,000 on industrial tooling only to get a $30 phone case stuck inside of it.
Once we saw Grip cases deforming along the bottom cutouts, we knew we'd need to find a way to remove the cheese from your mouth without breaking your teeth. To make a long story short: we did it. The cheese is out of your mouth, and you get to keep your teeth. Congratulations! Now, keep reading.
On newer models of the Grip case, the result is a polycarbonate bridge extending around the bottom cutouts, adding both structural reinforcement and interlock mechanisms to promote mechanical bond, much like the ones which line the perimeter of the rest of the Grip case.

Pictured: Newest-gen structural reinforcement on the bottom of the Grip.
On the subject of structural reinforcements, this design revision was around the time we flanked the buttons with some fins, working in tandem with the heightened compression set and button relief slits, detailed above, to further guarantee that button actuation would have no impact on the overall durability of the Grip case.

Pictured: Lack of button fins on the first-gen Grip.

Pictured: Button fins on the newest-gen Grip.
As an aside: Unrelated to the de-bonding issues, we've also made a number of smaller improvements to the Grip case with each new iteration. For instance, we chamfered the front lip of the case to make edge-swiping more pleasant and reduce dust accumulation along the rim. Those raised parallelogram shapes along the sides of your Grip case that create its distinctive handfeel? We made those way bigger for a better in-hand experience. In short: product development is a complex and multifaceted process. Each new iteration of the Grip case is better than the one that came before, and that applies to more than just failure rates.
Speaking of failure rates: all of these improvements were in place by the time we launched iPhone 11-series Grip cases. The failure rate for these cases decreased exponentially... but didn't disappear entirely.

The Even More Ridiculous Metaphor
With these improvements, we achieved our desired outcome: the case was no longer deforming around the buttons or the charging port. Instead, the structure of the case began to fail literally anywhere else around the perimeter of the phone.
Think of it this way… you’re a roof carpenter. The greatest roof carpenter of all time. Like the son of God, but if he was a carpenter. Unfortunately, you’ve been paired with the Donald Trump of wall-builders.
You're tasked with building a house. You spend all of your time and energy perfecting your roofcraft. You've designed a roof that's so durable, it may as well have been made of Nokia 3310s. Nothing's getting through that bad boy.
The wall guy? Instead of building that wall he said Mexico would pay for, he's been tweeting about the miraculous medicinal properties of bleach while a plague kills hundreds of thousands of Americans.
The point here is that you can build the greatest roof of all time, but the walls need to be strong enough to match.
To strengthen the Grip case's metaphorical walls, we needed to re-design the inside of the Grip case from scratch. More specifically, the mechanical interlock between the springy elastomer and rigid polycarbonate skeleton. We took every tooth at the bonding point between the two materials and made them as large as we possibly could. Then, we added more teeth.

Pictured: Polycarbonate teeth on the newest-gen Grip.
To jog your memory: this is how the teeth used to look...

Pictured: Polycarbonate teeth on the first-gen Grip.
If time proves that these changes aren’t enough, our engineers still have a number of ideas on how to improve the bond between the elastomer and polycarbonate. Will we ever need to implement those ideas? Again - that’s a question only time can answer. Each change might be the silver bullet that puts this problem to bed for good... but there's only one way to find out: it involves real-world testing and, with each iteration, months of careful observation.

PART THREE

So, Where Are We Now?
Have the improvements we've made to the Grip case been successful? You bet.
For the sake of comparison: we began shipping iPhone 11 series Grips on September 30th, 2019. Within six months of that date, we had received 52 reports of structural failures - a big improvement over the early days, but still not good enough.
Fast forward two months. We began shipping Note 10 Plus Grip cases on November 21st, 2019. In the first six months of availability, we received exactly eight reports of Note 10 Plus Grips falling apart. Again, a major improvement over the iPhone series in the same stretch of time. If we'd launched the first Grip cases with a failure rate that low, we wouldn't be writing this post right now and you’d have nothing to read while pretending to do work.
How about the Galaxy S20 series, which began shipping on February 10th, 2020? They're the most recent and improved set of SKUs we’ve made to date, leveraging everything we've learned and making further improvements over the Note 10 Plus. No reports so far. Same goes for the iPhone SE and OnePlus 8 series - these SKUs share all the improvements we've made to the underlying design of the Grip case thus far.
Does that mean these numbers will hold forever? Who knows. That's the thing: every improvement we make, we need to wait several months to see how effective it's been. No amount of internal testing can replace the real-world data of shipping cases to hundreds of thousands of users across nearly 200 countries.
We could always just throw in the towel, make the entire case out of rigid plastic, and call it a solved issue... but that would be the easy way out. The Grip case and its unique design properties can't reach their full potential unless we make incremental improvements - then wait and see how they pan out in the real world.
All of which is to say: it's far too early to say the newest set of improvements have officially solved the problem. While the failure rate is still zero, we need to keep watching. We've made a ton of progress, but we're not going to rest until we've killed this issue for good - without sacrificing the unique properties that make the Grip case stand out in a sea of derivative hard plastic and TPU phone cases.
That's probably enough to inspire confidence in someone who's on the fence about buying an S20 Ultra Grip, an iPhone SE Grip, or any Grip we release in the future. But what if you're one of the people who bought an older Grip model?

"I'm One Of The People Who Bought An Older Grip Model!"
We won't sugarcoat it. The failure rates for older Grip models is way higher than we deem acceptable. Why has it taken us this long to publicly address the issue, then?
Easy: it's not as widespread as you might think. Some humans reading this might be looking at their iPhone X Grip, purchased in 2019 and still intact, wondering what all the fuss is about. That's an important consideration: most people who have functioning, still-bonded Grip cases aren't posting on /dbrand about how unbroken it is. The people who've had issues around total product failure are in the minority.
We're not using the word "minority" as a get-out-of-jail-free card here. It's still a way larger number than we'd ever be comfortable with. We simply don't want our transparency and candor in writing this to be misinterpreted as an admission that every single Grip case we've made for older devices is going to fall apart. Statistically speaking, this is an issue for a minority of Grip owners.
Our philosophy at first was that, while it was unfortunate and frustrating that Grip cases were falling apart, dramatic PR action wasn't necessary. Instead, we resolved to:
  1. Quietly and diligently work in the background to improve the underlying design of the Grip case.
  2. Ship free replacements to anyone whose Grip case had failed.
To date, we've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on shipping fees alone for replacement Grips. As you can imagine, that number gets a lot higher once you add in the cost of actually making the thing. We've been fine with writing these costs off as sort of an R&D expense, since every example of a deformed or de-bonded Grip provides invaluable data on how to improve the product.
Where our strategy backfired was in the narrative that began to take root as Grip cases continued to fall apart. Look at it this way: the failure rate of older Grip case SKUs is anywhere between 1% and 20%, depending on how early we released the SKU. Since the improvements we've already made to the underlying design were rolled out incrementally with each new phone release, that number has been on a steady downward trend.
For the purpose of this thought experiment, we'll go with the earliest, shittiest Grip cases - putting us at a long-term failure rate of 20%.
So, 20% of customers for this device have a Grip case fall apart at some point in the product's lifespan. Every single one of those people writes in to our Customer Experience team about the issue. They all receive a replacement, free of charge.
Since this replacement is identical to the first Grip case they'd received, it also has a 20% failure rate. We're now dealing with percentages of percentages. Stop panicking, we'll do the math for you: that means 4% of these hypothetical Grip owners will have a second Grip case fail on them in the long run.
Four percent is a lot better than twenty… but it's also a lot of people who've been burned twice. These people are going to be extra vocal about how shitty the Grip case is. To be fair, they've got every right.
So, we've got four groups of customers for this SKU:
  • Group A: Has had two or more Grip cases fail (4%).
  • Group B: Has had exactly one Grip case fail (16%).
  • Group C: Bought a Grip which has not failed (80%).
  • Group D: Has not purchased a Grip case (NA%).
Group A is livid about the repeated issues they've had - rightfully so.
Group B, having been burned before, reads about Group A's experience. They take it to mean their replacement will inevitably fail on them as well, and they'll one day get the dubious honor of joining Group A.
Group C, despite not having had any issues yet, reads the experiences of Groups A and B. Then, a significant portion of this group begins to operate under the assumption that it's only a matter of time before their Grip falls apart as well.
Group D reads all of the above and decides they don't have enough confidence in the Grip case to ever purchase one.
A narrative begins to form that this hypothetical failure rate is close to 100%. Worse yet: people with newer phones, unaware that each new iteration of the Grip case has a dramatically reduced failure rate over the last, start to assume their case also has a 100% failure rate. That's where our original strategy - the one where we quietly improved the product in the background while offering replacements for defective units - backfired on us.
This narrative only exists because we've continued to leverage existing stock with too high a failure rate, which, in hindsight, was like pouring gasoline on a gender reveal forest fire of disappointment and regret. This brings us to our next chapter.

Mass Destruction
At this point, you're probably aware that a number of Grip SKUs for older phones have been listed as "Sold Out" on our website, and haven't been restocked since.
We stopped production on these cases because we knew they'd have all the same issues as the original production runs. See, it's not as simple as pushing a "make the Grip not fall apart" button at the factory - we'd need to redesign the case from scratch, implementing all of the design improvements we've made up to this point, then re-tool our existing machinery to produce this new version. We'll have more to say about re-tooling a bit later - for now, focus on the fact that some Grips have been listed as "Sold Out".
If someone's Grip case falls apart while listed as "Sold Out", we don't have any replacements to send them. Instead, dbrand's Customer Experience team has been issuing refunds wherever possible, and store credit otherwise. Just in case you're wondering what we mean by "where possible": PayPal doesn't allow refunds on transactions that are more than six months old. Store credit, on the other hand, can be offered indefinitely.
What we've come to realize is that we're never going to be able to escape this downward spiral until we rip the band-aid off and stop stocking these old, flawed SKUs.
Today, we're ripping the bandaid off. As you're reading this, we're disposing of all of our old stock. All of the flawed Grip SKUs are now listed as "Sold Out".
Head over to our Grip listing and take a look at what's available. Everything that you can currently buy is up to spec with the improvements we've made over the past year - meeting or exceeding the standard of quality set by the Galaxy S20 series, the iPhone SE, and the OnePlus 8 series. In some cases - take, for instance, the iPhone 11 series - this means we've already re-tooled our production lines to meet that quality benchmark.
If a Grip case is listed on "Backorder", it means we've begun the process of re-tooling the SKU to match the improved quality standard you've spent the last five hours reading about.
However, if a Grip case is now listed as "Sold Out", that means no more reshipments.
If you own a sold out Grip case that hasn't fallen apart yet: that's great! Don't assume that your Grip is doomed to fail just because we devoted 5661 words to explaining why it might fall apart. You've still got better odds than you would at a casino.
As always, if you run into any issues with your case, sold out or not, shoot an email to one of our Robots. They'll still take care of you - it just won't be with a replacement case… for now.

Mass Production
Remember when we said we'd talk more about re-tooling a bit later? That's right now.
So, why are so many Grip models not being fixed? Why haven't we re-tooled these old SKUs with all of the quality improvements made to the case's build quality? It's a little complicated.
Taking the improvements we've made to the most recent suite of Grip models and retroactively applying those changes to older SKUs isn't a simple task - it would require us to throw out our existing production tools and create new ones, from scratch. Suffice it to say that doing so is a wildly expensive endeavor.
To recoup that cost, we'd need to produce more Grips than we're likely to ever sell for aging, irrelevant hardware. Let's use the Pixel 3 as an example.
If we replaced every single de-bonded Pixel 3 Grip, that would account for about 3% of the MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) on a re-tooled Pixel 3 Grip case. Now we're sitting on 97% of that MOQ as overstock. Pixel 3 owners have had their phone for nearly two years now. If they want a phone case, they already have one. They're not looking for new Pixel 3 cases, they're getting ready to buy a new phone. Simply put, it’s no longer a viable market.
Now, say the Pixel 3 was a significantly more popular phone - enough that we'd be shipping out, say, 50% of the MOQ as replacements on day one. Now, that's a lot more tempting to us - we'd still lose boatloads of money, but at least it would go towards some consumer goodwill.
To figure out how much money we'd lose on re-tooling, we gave our bean-counting Robots a giant jar of beans and told them to get to work. They emerged three days later. When asked how many beans were in the jar, they gave us a blank stare. When asked if it was possible to re-tool any of our production lines for old Grip SKUs without losing obscene amounts of money, they said:
"Absolutely not."
Still, we're no strangers to throwing away obscene amounts of money to make the internet happy. Remember Amazon gift cards? Those were the days. The only question that remains is "How much money are we willing to set on fire?"
We can't tell you yet. Why? Because we're currently running a detailed cost-benefit analysis on the subject of re-tooling old production lines, on a SKU-by-SKU basis. That's business talk for "the bean-counting Robots have been given more beans to count."
The objective is to determine the viability of producing new-and-improved Grip stock for older phones: how many units would be tied up in replacements for that model, how many we could reasonably expect to sell to new customers, and how much overstock would be left from the MOQ.
From there, we can determine what the financial impact of re-tooling would be and make the final decision on how much cash we're dumping into the ocean somewhere off the coast of the Seychelles. We'll have our results by early next week.
These re-tooled models, if produced, would feature every improvement we’ve made thus far to the Grip case line, plus a few that have yet to be released. Remember how the S20s, the iPhone SE and the OnePlus 8s haven't had any reported failures yet? Picture that, but for the phone you've got.
If we go ahead with re-tooling production lines for your phone, a few things will happen:
  1. The Grip case for your phone will go from "Sold Out" to "Backorder".
  2. Our Customer Experience Robots will shift their communication strategy from "we no longer support your phone," to "we'll get you a replacement once we've got improved units in stock."
None of these things will happen until we've run the simulations on which phones are getting restocked. Why are we posting this today, then? We could have waited a week and had concrete answers to offer about the future of our out-of-stock Grip cases. Well…

Take Our Survey
This is it: your chance to have some say in how much money we set on fire as a goodwill exercise for this whole R&D clusterfuck.
Those simulations we're running? They'll be great for telling us how much money we're going to lose on each Grip SKU, but it won't tell us anything about how much money our customers want us to lose on each Grip SKU.
To that end, we've prepared a survey for people who have purchased a Grip case. We'll be taking your feedback into consideration during our decision-making process.
We have only one request: don't be a jackass. Answer the questions honestly.
Click here to take the survey.

In Closing...
We're sharing a special moment right now. We're all seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.
For us, that light is "we're almost done with a year-long R&D effort to stop the Grip case from falling apart."
For you, the light is "the end of a 5661-word marathon of a Reddit post."
We just want to take a minute to recognize that we couldn't have gotten this far without your collective support. At any point in the past year, we might have pulled the plug on the Grip project entirely if we'd reached a critical mass of negative sentiment from our customers. Instead, we've got an army of devotees who have no problem paying us for the privilege of being our guinea pigs.
Product development isn't a one-and-done process. It's easy to forget, but our skins weren't always to the world-class, record-setting, Michael-Jordan-in-his-prime standard you expect from us today. If you happen to have an iPhone 4 skin lying around, apply it and let us know how it goes. You'll immediately appreciate how many process improvements we've made. We weren’t born as the greatest skin manufacturer in history. We got there through a process of methodical improvement. Each jump in quality was driven by a bottomless well of user feedback, sourced from millions upon millions of customers. That, and the competition was comically inept.
It's the same story for the Grip case. Your continued support has enabled us to make huge strides in developing a product that's on the cusp of blowing everyone else out of the water. We're going to keep working until it gets there.

TL;DR VERSION

Please note that by reading this tl;dr, you’re missing out on several outlandish metaphors, including classics such as:
  • Plastic injection molding melted cheese into your face hole.
  • What if Jesus and Donald Trump built a house?
  • How to turn yourself from “rare to well done” and “solid to paste”.
  • Pencil Perverts.

WHY DOES THE GRIP FALL APART?
  • The Grip case is made from two materials: a polycarbonate skeleton and an elastomer frame.
  • The elastomer frame provides the majority of the case's impact protection and grip, but is prone to deformation.
  • We prevent deformation by bonding the material to a polycarbonate skeleton (i.e. the rigid back plate on the Grip case).
  • The bond between the two materials was not as strong as we'd originally anticipated, causing the elastomer to de-bond from the polycarbonate skeleton and the case to sometimes fall apart.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO FIX IT?
  • Through a series of design revisions, we've made countless improvements to promote a stronger bond between the two materials.
  • These changes have incrementally reduced the failure rate of Grip cases. Our most recent SKUs are yielding extremely promising results.
  • Each time we improve the Grip case, we need to play a months-long waiting game to observe the real-world effects.

HOW ABOUT THE GRIPS YOU'VE ALREADY SOLD?
  • Since we're using you as guinea pigs for the purposes of product development, we've been uncharacteristically generous with our warranty policy.
  • However, that warranty policy only lasts as long as we have stock. Once we're out of Grips, we're out of replacements.
  • We've finally reached the point where we need to rip off the bandaid and dispose of all of our Grip stock produced during 2019.
  • If your Grip for any of these older phones falls apart, you can no longer get a replacement.
  • You should still write in to our Customer Experience team if it happens to you - we'll work something out.
  • On the bright side, our Grip SKUs from 2020 onwards have dramatically reduced, if not outright eliminated, the failure rate of previous models. We have no reported cases to date.
  • It's not economically viable to re-tool production lines to apply our improved industrial designs to any of the Grip cases that are currently marked as "Sold Out".
  • We're probably going to do it anyways.
  • We're running the simulations right now to determine which older devices will be re-tooled.
  • Take our survey to help determine which devices we'll be re-tooling.
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Trump, Murdoch, Lauder, Giuliani, and Russia: The Tangled Web

Roy Cohn: US Political Nexus
In the 1980‘s Ron Lauder (1), Rupert Murdoch (2), and Donald Trump (3) shared the same mob-connected lawyer, Roy Cohn. As a matter of fact Roy Cohn even introduced Roger Stone to Trump in 1979 (3).
Stone appeared on East 68th Street to find Cohn, just awakened, in his robe, sitting with one of his clients, Mob boss “Fat Tony” Salerno, of the Genovese crime family. “In front of [Roy] was a slab of cream cheese and three burnt slices of bacon,” Stone remembered. “He ate the cream cheese with his pointing finger. He listened to my pitch and said, ‘You need to see Donald Trump. I will get you in, but then you are on your own.’ ”
Shortly after, Stone founded Black Manafort & Stone with Paul Manafort and Charlie Black and took on Donald Trump as their first client (3). Stone later introduced Trump to Manafort in 1988 at the Republican National Committee (4).
  1. http://www.maryellenmark.com/text/magazines/vanity%20fai925E-000-007.html
  2. https://consortiumnews.com/2016/06/19/how-roy-cohn-helped-rupert-murdoch-2/
  3. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/donald-trump-roy-cohn-relationship
  4. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/a-timeline-of-paul-manaforts-relationship-with-the-trump-world.html
Enter Russia
In 1986, Russia’s ambassador to the US, Yuri Dubinin, and Donald Trump dined at a luncheon hosted by the Lauders. The following year Dubinin invited Trump to what would become Trump’s first of many trips to Russia. There Trump toured possible locations for a potential Trump Tower in Moscow (1). By 1989 the Lauders made their own ventures into Russia, opening up their first Estee Lauder boutique in Moscow, just blocks from the Red Square (2).
That same year Ron Lauder joined forces with Arthur Finkelstein and Roger Ailes to run for New York mayor against Rudy Giuliani. When Lauder lost the primary to Giuliani, Ailes jumped shipped and joined Giuliani’s team. Ultimately, however, Giuliani lost the election (3), though he'd go on to attain the mayorship in 1993.
  1. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215842
  2. http://articles.latimes.com/1989-11-16/news/mn-2346_1_estee-lauder-shop
  3. https://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/02/nyregion/president-s-brother-is-promoting-a-giuliani-lauder-alliance.html
The Fall of Boris Berezovsky and Rise of Roman Abramovich
Mob-connected Boris Berezovsky benefitted handsomely from the Soviet Union’s march away from communism, becoming one of Russia’s first billionaires through his car dealership company, Logovaz, founded in 1989 (1). In 1995 the Russian presidency, helmed by Boris Yeltsin, was at risk of falling back into the hands of the Communists, so Yeltsin sought assistance from those who benefited most from his policies.
[Yelstin] was desperately in need of funds, and turned to men such as [Roman] Abramovich and Berezovsky, whom he invited to participate in the so-called "loans for shares" scheme in return for financial backing. (2)
For Berezovsky and his protege, Abramovich, that was with Sibneft, which they acquired in 1995. In exchanged for being brought into the loans for shares program, Abramovich was forced to pay Berezovsky $1 billion across 6 years for “kryshna”, or mafia protection (3).
In January 1996, during the Davos World Economic Forum, Berezovsky returned the favor and formed the Davos Pact with other newly minted Russia oligarchs, including Mikhail Fridman and Petr Aven of Alfabank, to bankroll Yeltsin's campaign (4). In the end, though legally capped at $3 million, estimates range that Yeltsin’s campaign spent between $100-$500 million (5). They also brought in many America politicos to assist as well, including George Gorton, Richard Dresner, Joe Shumate (6), and Roger Stone-protege Michael Caputo (7).
Soon after Yeltsin’s victory, Ron Lauder traveled to Moscow to celebrate the opening of another boutique on Red Square. A lavish party was thrown in Lauder’s honor, even attended by Yeltsin himself. And the oligarch who threw the party - Boris Berezovsky (1). At some point Berezovsky would also team up with Rupert Murdoch to form Logovaz News Corporation that invested in Russia media, including Nashe Radio (8).
During Putin’s ascension toward power he found critics in a number of oligarchs that previously supported Yeltsin, including Berezovsky, who criticized Putin’s lean toward authoritarianism. In 2000 Putin succeeded Yeltsin and by the end of the year Berezovsky sought political asylum in London. In 2013 he died a mysterious death (4). Abramovich, however, stayed loyal to Putin and on February 17, 2000 made a deal with Russian oligarch and head of RusAl, Oleg Deripaska, to end the aluminum wars and turn Abramovich from merely rich to a full blown oligarch himself (9).
  1. https://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/1996/1230/5815090a.html
  2. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/08/russia.football
  3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich#Acquisition_of_Sibneft,_aluminium_wars,_and_loans-for-shares
  4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman)
  5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Yeltsin_presidential_campaign,_1996
  6. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/07/film.russia
  7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Caputo
  8. https://www.news24.com/xArchive/Archive/Magnate-tycoon-own-airwaves-20010705
  9. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/jul/06/russia.football
Ron Lauder
In 1995 Ron Lauder pushed Bibi Netanyahu to hire past political operative Arthur Finkelstein for Netanyahu’s first run for Prime Minister of Israel (1). Finkelstein also did work for the Trump Organization (2) and, according to Glenn Simpson’s congressional testimony, worked with Roger Stone and Paul Manafort in Ukraine (3).
...Finkelstein worked with Stone and Manafort in Ukraine in or around 2005, 2006, for the same cast of bad guys.
Finkelstein's longtime business associate and adviser to Netanyahu, George Birnbaum, would later reach out to Paul Manafort's deputy, Rick Gates, when Gates joined Trump's campaign, and presented a plan for a campaign of social media manipulation run by Israeli intelligence officers through Psy-Group, owned by Joel Zamel (25). Later Erik Prince would arrange for Joel Zamel to meet with George Nader and Don Jr. to discuss Zamel's proposal. Nader ultimately paid $2 million dollars for the work (26).
Ron Lauder and Netanyahu would become close and in 1998, Lauder, Netanyahu, and George Nader joined forces in ultimately failed negotiations between Israel and Syria (4). In the 2000's, after spending a year a Prague prison for pedophilia, Nader moved to the UAE and quickly rebuilt his political connections, becoming trusted emissary to the crown princes of both Saudi Arabia (MBS) and the UAE (MBZ). Soon after, Erik Prince of Blackwater hired Nader as a "business development consultant" from March 2004 - Nov 2008 (33) to acquire security contracts with Iraq (30). In 2010, as Blackwater struggled under scandal, Prince moved to the UAE himself and founded another private security firm, r2, directly financed my MBZ. R2 was tasked with securing a number of Middle East power plants yet to be built (31).
In Dec 2016 after a secret meeting with MBZ at Trump Tower that included Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner, and Michael Flynn (which was at the center of the unmasking controversy), Prince discussed with Nader and MBZ a back-channel to Russia. At the time Nader was promoting a plan to destabilize Iran using private security contractors (26). A month later Nader and MBZ introduced Prince to the head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund in Seychelles (32), a meeting currently under investigation by the FBI special counsel. Nader is cooperating with Mueller.
In 2000, Allen Roth, Lauder’s longtime aide who helped in his 1989 mayoral run, founded One Jerusalem and later its offshoot, Secure America Now. Ron Lauder and Robert Mercer are top donors to Secure America Now and Devon Gaffney Cross, on the board of One Jerusalem (6), is sister to Michael Flynn associate Frank Gaffney of the Center for Security Policy (7). One Jerusalem is currently under investigation for a corruption scheme involving a Netanyahu aide (5).
In an email to George Nader, Elliott Broidy claims Secure America Now was one of the companies he worked with (8). In 2003, Elliott Broidy bribed the New York State pension into investing in a private equity firm he founded to invest in Israel (9). In 2005 Broidy started a private security contractor business, Circinus, that recently acquired a $200 million contract with the UAE (28), arranged by George Nader a(29). Broidy is currently the subject of a criminal probe in Ukraine for working with a US sanctioned Russian bank, VTB, in 2014 (27).
In 1997 Ron Lauder teamed up with a Vadim Rabinovich on a media venture into Ukraine (10).
American Government officials acknowledged that embassy officials had told Mr. Lauder and other company officials about Mr. Rabinovich's conviction and his links to Grigory Loutchansky, a Russian whose company, Nordex, is suspected of having ties to criminal organizations.
In 2003 the Lauder Institute teamed up with Russia Oligarch Michael Fridman and German Khan’s Alfabank to form the “Excellence in Foreign Investement in Russia” award, with Leonard Lauder and Richard Burt on the board (11). Richard Burt, working for Diligence, had previously worked as a lobbyist for Oleg Deripaska, Deripaska’s RusAl, and Gazprom, and was once implicated in a scam to steal information from an Alfabank competitor (12)(13). Diligence also happens to be owned by Deripaska's London-based business partner, Nathanial Rothschild (23). Burt, along with Paul Manfort and George Papadopoulos, edited Trump’s first speech on foreign policy, where Trump promised Russia a great deal (14).
In 2004 Ron Lauder sold shares of Channel-9 and Channel-10 to Russian Oligarch Lev Leviev, a close associate of Roman Abramovich (19). Lev Leviev would later do business with Jared Kushner (22). In 2013 Lauder negotiated selling a major stake in Channel-10 to Len Blavatnik (18), a Russia oligarch currently under investigation by Mueller (20). And here is Lauder hanging out with Roman Abramovich in 2018 (21).
In November 2014 Ron Lauder met with Alfa-bank founders Mikhail Fridman and German Khan in London (15). German Khan’s son-in-law pled guilty for lying to Mueller about his work with Paul Manafort.
On March 31st, Papdopoulos told Trump he can “arrange a meeting between Trump and Putin” (16). On April 19 2016, Ron Lauder personally met with Putin (17).
More recently, in October 2018 Trump dispatched Ron Lauder to met with the president of Palenstine behind Jared Kushner's back to reinstate peace talks (24).
Lauder had proposed running a back channel between the PA leader and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but the initiative ultimately fizzled.
  1. https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/arthur-finkelstein-little-known-strategist-who-changed-the-course-of-israel-s-history-dies-aged-72-1.443165
  2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_J._Finkelstein
  3. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:House-Intel-Glenn-Simpson-Transcript.pdf/113
  4. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-russia-mueller-probe-the-israel-connections-1.6116639
  5. https://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-netanyahu-aide-received-money-from-group-tied-to-billionaire-lauder-report/
  6. http://powerbase.info/index.php/Devon_Cross
  7. https://www.newsweek.com/ezra-cohen-watnick-donald-trump-devin-nunes-russia-barack-obama-wiretap-susan-583904
  8. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/21/us/politics/george-nader-elliott-broidy-uae-saudi-arabia-white-house-influence.html
  9. https://www.haaretz.com/1.5040615
  10. https://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/05/world/a-cosmetics-heir-s-joint-venture-is-tainted-by-ukrainian-s-past.html
  11. https://web.archive.org/web/20060927104324/https://alfabank.com/media/news/2006/06/20/
  12. https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
  13. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/haley-barbour-iran-nuclear-program-bgr_n_1375102.html
  14. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/us/politics/transcript-trump-foreign-policy.html
  15. https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/russian-philanthropists-bound-for-london-1.61095
  16. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/30/george-papadopoulos-timeline-trump-campaign-adviser-russia-links
  17. https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/top-jewish-leader-lauder-thanks-putin-for-fighting-anti-semitism-1.5436695
  18. https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-jewish-billionaire-len-blavatnik-may-buy-control-of-ch-10-1.5289898
  19. https://www.haaretz.com/1.4746237
  20. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclusive-special-counsel-probing-donations-foreign-connections-trump/story?id=55054482
  21. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/241425
  22. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/24/jared-kushner-new-york-russia-money-laundering
  23. https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
  24. https://www.timesofisrael.com/lauder-said-to-meet-abbas-on-trumps-behalf-in-bid-to-jump-start-peace-talks/
  25. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/us/politics/rick-gates-psy-group-trump.html
  26. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/us/politics/trump-jr-saudi-uae-nader-prince-zamel.html
  27. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/trump-donor-ukraine-criminal-probe-180307124432781.html
  28. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/elliott-broidy-history-bribery-pro-israel-advocacy-180404120351079.html
  29. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/21/us/politics/george-nader-elliott-broidy-uae-saudi-arabia-white-house-influence.html
  30. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-trump-saudi-uae-princes-20180521-story.html
  31. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/world/middleeast/15prince.html
  32. https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/13/politics/susan-rice-house-investigators-unmasked-trump-officials/index.html
  33. https://littlesis.org/relationships/1457568
Rupert Murdoch and wife Wendi Deng
In the 90‘s Murdoch ventured into Russia media with mob-linked Boris Berezovsky of Logovaz. The two formed a joint venture, Logovaz News Corp, that invested in a number of Russian media properties, including Nashe Radio (1). Then in 2002 Murdoch entered into the Russian billboard industry (2):
By all accounts, the unexpected break for Murdoch in the Russian ad market came in 2002 after the assassination of Vladimir Kanevsky, then the billboard king of Moscow. In February of that year, at an intersection near the Kremlin, a man in a black ski cap walked up to Kanevsky's car and pumped five rounds into his head and chest.
Murdoch's Russia ventures have been investigated for bribery. This was all in the background when, in 1999, Rupert Murdoch married Wendi Deng whom he and the FBI suspect of being a spy (3).
Since their divorce, Murdoch has been telling anybody who would listen that Wendi is a Chinese spy--and had been throughout the marriage.
In 2006, when Jared Kushner bought the Observer, Murdoch became his close mentor (4).
When Jared Kushner took over the New York Observer in mid-2006 (around the time he met Ivanka Trump, whom he would marry in 2009) he turned to Murdoch for counsel.
Jared and Ivanka were known to double-date with Murdoch and his ex-wife Wendi Deng, and even after Murdoch’s split with Deng, the two women and the two men remained close.
Kushner then directed the Observer erase such stories, and more (4).
The erasures first occurred under the leadership of then-editor-in-chief Elizabeth Spiers, who told The Post she was unaware of the erasure but said Kushner previously requested over the phone she couch stories about media mogul Rupert Murdoch, his mentor.
In 2007 Wendi Deng, introduced Ivanka Trump to the wife of Roman Abramovich, Dasha Zhukova (5). In 2010, Jared Kushner's brother, Joshua, invested in a joint venture founded by Zhukova and Deng, Arsty.net (6). Then in 2014 Zhukova invited Deng, Ivanka, and Kushner to Moscow where they partied with Abramovich, Viktor Vekselberg, Len Blavatnik, and Alfa-bank execs, including the son-in-law of Sergei Lavrov (7).
A week before inauguartion Ivanka Trump hosted a secret dinner at the home of Wendi Deng where she collected advice from a series of powerful business women (8). The two then hung out during Trump's inauguaration (9).
In 2010, Israel granted oil rights in Syria to Rupert Murdoch and Lord Jacob Rothschild, both of Genie Energy (10). Jacob also sits on the international advisory board to Blackstone Group (13), who's founder, Steve Schwarzman, sat on the board of the Russian Direct Investment Fund (14). Jacob's brother, Nathaniel, is also business partners with Oleg Deripaska, and owns Diligence, which employed Richard Burt to lobby on behalf of Deripska, RusAl, and Gazprom (11).
Richard Burt was John McCains top policy adviser in 2000 and an adviser to McCain during McCain's 2008 run for the presidency. Nathanial, Burt's employer, ended up hosting a dinner for John McCain that gained much criticism at the time (11):
...one conservative watchdog group in the US went after McCain half a year ago for facilitating a fundraiser at the home of Nat Rothschild, the Deripaska associate at the center of the Osborne-Mandelson row. Foreign donations, even "in-kind" contributions such as assistance raising money, are prohibited under American election law.
In 2018 Ron Lauder awarded the entire Rothschild family the Herzl Award (12).
  1. https://www.news24.com/xArchive/Archive/Magnate-tycoon-own-airwaves-20010705
  2. http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2085878,00.html
  3. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/16/fbi-warned-jared-kushner-wendi-deng-could-use-friendship-push/
  4. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/16/donald-trump-rupert-murdoch-friendship-fox-news
  5. https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-powea12106454/who-is-dasha-zhukova/
  6. https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a18929591/wendi-murdoch-interview-artsy/
  7. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-18/billionaire-ally-of-putin-socialized-with-kushner-ivanka-trump
  8. http://fortune.com/2017/01/13/ivanka-trump-dinner-murdoch/
  9. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4139016/Ivanka-poses-Wendi-Deng-night-inauguration.html
  10. https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/02/israel-grants-oil-rights-in-syria-to-murdoch-and-rothschild/
  11. https://www.thenation.com/article/mccains-kremlin-ties/
  12. http://thejewishvoice.com/2018/10/10/ron-lauder-present-theodor-herzl-award-rothschild-family-nyc/
  13. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Rothschild,_4th_Baron_Rothschild
  14. https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-investment-fund-connected-to-us-investors-sanctioned-2015-7
Rudy Giuliani
From 1977-1981 Giuliani worked at law firm Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler. One of the partners was Richard Nixon's son-in-law, Ed Cox (22). Ed Cox would later introduce Carter Page to the Trump campaign in Dec 2015 (23).
In 1993 Rudy Giuliani attained the mayorship of New York with the help of Sam Kislin, a major donor with links to the Russian mafia, whom Giuliani later appointed to the New York City Mayor's Council of Economic Advisors (18)(19)(21). Sam Kislin ran an electronics store with Tamir Sapir. Tamir Sapir's Sapir Organization later teamed up with the Trump Organization and Felix Sater's Bayrock Group for Trump SoHo in 2006 (20).
During Giuliani's 1993 campaign, he developed a close bond with Bernard Kerik, a police detective for the NYPD who once helped arrange security for the Saudi royal family and assisted Giuliani through his campaign. When airplanes struck the World Tower in 2001, it was Kerik standing by Giuliani’s side (1).
During the 90‘s, however, Kerik developed mob-ties, details which spilled out in 2004 nomination process to become head of Homeland Security. One of those ties, whom the mob hired on Kerik’s request, was Lawrence Ray (2). In 2009 Kerik pled guilty to corruption, tax evasion, and making false statements.
In 1996 Ray was indicted for a pump-and-dump stock scheme run by several New York crime families, including the Gambinos, and the Russian mob, including none other than Felix Sater (3) who later arranged for Ivanka Trump to sit in Putin’s chair in Moscow and worked with the Trump Organization on the fraud-laden Trump SoHo project (5).
Interstate Industrial was also tied to former Gambino captain, Dominic Borghese (13). Another member of the Gambino crime family, Julius Nasso, ran his own mob-linked concrete company that worked jointly with S&A on Trump Tower . S&A was part owned by Roy Cohn's other client, "Fat Tony" of the Genovese crime family (12).
Julius Nasso's nephew of the same name partnered with Paul Manaofort to found Manhattan Pictures and produced Steven Seagal film. Ultimately Nasso spent a year in prison for extorting Steven Seagal (14) business partner in Manhattan Pictures, but not before the two made shadowy dealings with a company that sold Russian nuclear tech to US companies (15).
Also in 1996, just months after Yeltsin’s victory, Rupert Murdoch debuted Fox News Channel and appointed Roger Ailes founding CEO. Immediately Fox News Channel enlisted New York mayor Rudy Giuliani to pressure Time Warner to transmit Fox News (6). Giuliani also developed a close relationship with Donald Trump during his mayorship, including appearing with Trump in a comedy video in 2000 (7) and borrowing Trump’s private plane for a trip to Israel in 2001 (8).
In August 2001 Kerik traveled to Israel and for the first time met Israeli billionaire Eitan Wertheimer, who ran a company that did business with US defense contractors (16). The following December Giuliani borrowed Trump's plane to visit Israel himself (17). In 2002 Giuliani founded Giuliani Partners with Bernard Kerik and in 2003, while Kerik traveled to Iraq as part of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, he met up with Wertheimer again and received a "loan" a failed to document it (16).
In 2004 Giuliani Partners obtained Triglobal as a client. Triglobal, a company that connects Western businesses to the former Soviet Union, quickly shuttled Giuliani to Moscow to meet with Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, amongst other prominent politicians and business men of Russia (9).
In February 2013 Giulani met with Emin Agalarov, who’s publicist arranged the Trump Tower meeting with Russian agent Natalia Veselnitskaya (10). Over the years Giulani’s clients have included Alfabank, Rosneft, and Ukrainian politician Vitali Klitschko, all connected to Triglobal (11).
  1. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/30/giuliani.transcript/
  2. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/03/us/politics/03kerik.html
  3. https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article174493821.html
  4. https://www.businessinsider.com/ivanka-trump-putin-chair-felix-sater-russia-2017-8
  5. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-ivanka-trump-and-donald-trump-jr-avoided-a-criminal-indictment
  6. https://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/04/nyregion/giuliani-pressures-time-warner-to-transmit-a-fox-channel.html
  7. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/rudy-guiliani-donald-trump-drag-video-seduce-new-york-mayor-us-president-a8344921.html
  8. https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/11/nyregion/giuliani-used-trump-s-plane-for-weekend-visit-to-israel.html
  9. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/us/politics/donald-trump-cabinet-rudy-giuliani.html
  10. https://thesternfacts.com/rudy-giuliani-knows-russian-oligarchs-son-who-linked-trump-campaign-with-spies-3a1a366a90fd
  11. https://thesternfacts.com/the-trump-russia-dossier-includes-rudy-giulianis-clients-alfa-bank-rosneft-and-qatar-1353876e789e
  12. https://www.nytimes.com/1987/01/16/nyregion/convicted-crime-chief-charged-in-bid-rigging.html
  13. https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/20/nyregion/mob-ties-may-be-innocent-casino-panel-member-says.html
  14. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_R._Nasso
  15. https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2017/11/28/florida-lawmakers-former-company-used-manafort-to-pitch-russian-developed-technology-to-us-government-123127
  16. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckrakeimg-src-http-talkingpointsmemo-com-images-bush-kerik-lawn-muck-jpg-vspace-5-hspace-5-align-left-billionaire-businessman-gave-kerik-250k-loan
  17. https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/11/nyregion/giuliani-used-trump-s-plane-for-weekend-visit-to-israel.html
  18. https://nypost.com/1999/12/22/rudy-donor-linked-to-russian-mob/
  19. https://www.newsweek.com/giuliani-mysterious-ties-russia-former-soviet-union-decades-1215349
  20. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-16/behind-trump-s-russia-romance-there-s-a-tower-full-of-oligarchs
  21. https://web.archive.org/web/20180423085033/http://old.themoscowtimes.com/sitemap/free/1999/12/article/giuliani-donor-linked-to-russian-mob/268520.html
  22. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson_Belknap_Webb_%26_Tyler
  23. https://www.timesunion.com/7day-state/article/N-Y-GOP-s-Cox-introduced-Carter-Page-to-Trump-12553410.php
submitted by Puffin_Fitness to RussiaLago [link] [comments]

What we Learned in the Russia Probe: March 25 - 31

Housekeeping:
On to the review...

Week of March 25 - 31: What we Learned in the Russia Probe

Mueller investigation

In a new court filing in the sentencing of attorney, and son-in-law of a Russian oligarch, Alex van der Zwaan, Mueller revealed the most direct connection between Trump and the Russians that we know of so far.
The FBI has in their possession a second report written by Christopher Steele that alleges Putin has sanctioned killings of Russians on U.S. soil.
There are two other suspicious Russian deaths on U.S. soil (plus over a dozen on U.K. soil) that I know of. I’m sure there are more. Here are the ones that occurred in the states:
Mueller is probing Russia contacts at that occurred at the Republican National Convention in 2016.
In attempting to obtain cooperation from Rick Gates, Mueller has reportedly been pushing him for information on Trump’s contacts with Russia rather than information on Manafort.
Infowars contributor & Trump campaign associate Ted Malloch was detained by the FBI as he arrived at the Boston airport from London. He was questioned about about Roger Stone and Julian Assange, and was subpoenaed to testify before Mueller's D.C. grand jury on April 13th.
Kirill Dmitriev, the Russian financier Erik Prince met with in the Seychelles in January 2017, has closer ties to Putin than previously known.
European counterintelligence officials have revealed that Papadopoulos had meetings with Greek Defense Minister Panos Kammenos, who is close to Putin, both before and after the election. They state that these meetings should concern the U.S.
George Nader, a political adviser to the UAE and now a cooperating witness, paid Trump fundraiser and former RNC chairman Elliott Broidy $2.5 million last April. Broidy then made large donations to U.S. lawmakers considering legislation targeting Qatar, UAE’s rival.
John Dowd, Trump’s former lawyer, reportedly spoke to Flynn and Manafort about Trump pardoning them for their crimes.
Manafort is reportedly betting on receiving a presidential pardon, not planning on cooperating with Mueller.
The jet of Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch and Putin ally, arrived in the US (in New Jersey) within hours of a meeting between Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and the former Russian military intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik. This occurred just weeks after Manafort offered "private briefings" about the Trump campaign to Deripaska.

Russian interference

CNN’s Jim Acosta reported on Twitter that NSC spokesman Michael Anton confirmed the administration has still not enforced any sanctions against Russian oligarchs, contradicting Raj Shah’s statement at Monday’s press briefing. There is already criticism that the announced sanctions do not touch Putin’s oligarchs or government officials.
In response to the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and daughter in the U.K., the Trump administration has expelled 60 Russian diplomats/spies and ordered a Seattle Russian diplomatic compound to close. However, the State Department has confirmed original reporting by Julia Davis that the expelled diplomats/spies can be replaced by others, in a loophole that greatly reduces the impact of Trump’s actions.
A former Russian double agent has reported that he found out he was on a Kremlin hit list with Skripal, just weeks before Skripal was poisoned. Also on the list were several other ex-KGB agents, Bill Browder, and Christopher Steele.
After months of trying to convince Trump to sign off on a plan to supply new U.S. weapons to Ukraine, National Security advisers finally got him to approve the plan. However, Trump told his aides not to publicly tout his decision because he didn’t want to anger Putin.
The $380 million included in the omnibus spending bill for election security is likely not going to end up fixing key election security issues in all states.

Congress

Mark Zuckerberg has decided that he will testify before Congress, but is sending representatives to testify before the U.K. Parliament. He is going to be asked questions about Facebook’s relationship with Cambridge Analytica, a company that harvested the data of 50 million users without their knowledge.
House Dems have called for the FBI to investigate claims that Kushner leaked classified information to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman. Reportedly, the prince has said that Kushner revealed Saudi leaders who were disloyal to him, resulting in their arrest and perhaps torture.

Other

In 2015, the FBI looked into Trump plans in 2010 to build a hotel in Latvia with Putin supporter Igor Krutoy. The plans were abandoned after Krutoy and an associate were questioned by Latvian authorities as part of a major criminal inquiry there. The Guardian states that, “ Latvian investigators also examined secret recordings in which Trump was mentioned by a suspect.”
Kushner has called newly-named National Security Adviser John Bolton on numerous occasions for advice and to brief him on key national security issues.
To note…
Ecuador has cut off Julian Assange’s internet connection at the embassy in London, “after his recent activity on social media decrying the arrest of a Catalan separatist politician.”
Stormy Daniels’ 60 Minutes interview aired last Sunday. The new piece of information we learned is that Stormy and her daughter were threatened about Trump in a parking lot in 2011.
Trump has lost arbitration to win back control of the former Trump International Tower & Hotel in Panama. The owners of the hotel evicted the Trump Organization earlier this month over allegations of "horrific" mismanagement.
My twitter. Thanks for reading!
submitted by rusticgorilla to Keep_Track [link] [comments]

There are still a number of strange coincidences regarding Russia, the GOP and the Trump campaign. Here are some of the biggest unanswered questions...

There are a bunch of strange coincidences regarding Trump and Russia; unanswered questions that seem to point to nothing other than collusion or attempted collusion/conspiracy. Let's not forget that we've only heard a 4 page summary (given to us by a man who said the president is above the law and who was hired specifically by Trump after expressing his negative opinion of Mueller's investigation) from a massive report spanning 2+ years, 37 indictments, 7 guilty pleas, 199 criminal charges incl conspiracy against the US, 13 Russians indicted for interfering in the 2016 election, 3 Russian businesses indicted and a convicted Russian spy, Maria Butina that infiltrated the NRA and helped arrange a meeting where NRA executives went to Russia and met with oligarchs. They allegedly received tons of money from Russia and also happened to donate $30M to Trump's campaign.
And let's also not forget about the sex traffickemassage parlor owner (that Robert Kraft was connected to) who was with Trump at his Superbowl party and was pictured with Trump multiple times along with other GOP congressmen who was selling access to Trump at Mar-a-Lago to Chinese executives and officials. These are very shady things that need to be looked into. Nevermind all the financial crimes and other white collar crimes that Trump has committed over the last 30yrs and all the people he's fucked over like the 100s of contractors and small businesses he screwed after bankrupting 3 casinos, the times he's settled for discriminating against potential buyers of his properties, the Trump University scam that was ripping off students, the illegal immigrants he's taken advantage of for cheap labor and the 4,000+ times he's been sued for fucking over Americans. Anyway, here are those strange, uj hi Jill 8 it 88í stories and sources for each of them.
Here's the article about a Trump server in the tiny town of Lititz, PA suspiciously communicating 95% of its internet traffic with Russia
Here's the article showing that Manafort gave sensitive polling data to Russian associates while head of Trump's 2016 campaign
Here's a story about the secret meeting that Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater and Betsy Devos' brother, had with Russian officials and the Prince of Abu Dhabi in an attempt to setup a backchannel between Trump and Putin
Here's the article detailing the meetings between Russian officials & a convicted Russian spy, Maria Butina, and NRA executives regarding Russia giving the NRA money to gain political favors, influence the GOP and help Republican candidates, incl Donald Trump in their elections
Here's the article about Jared Kushner and others having their security clearance denied because they were deemed a threat to national security by Republican career security experts and were overruled by Trump's appointee. This has happened only once in the 3yrs prior to Trump but 30 TIMES since Trump appointed Kline. 30 different times people were denied security clearance for being threats to national security and 30 times that was overruled
Here's the article about Trump's Russian business associate with ties to the Kremlin, Felix Sater, who went to prison for stabbing a man in the face and who wrote a letter to Michael Cohen during the campaign that said "our boy Donald can get elected...and we can engineer it"
You can't deny that these are very strange incidents and coincidences that need explaining. If the Mueller report exonerates Trump then why is Mitch McConnell blocking Congress from seeing it when just 3 days ago he said they needed to be "open and transparent" about the report? If this is such great news for Trump then we should be able to see the full report and not rely on Barr's word, a man who's renowned for getting Republicans out of legal trouble and who said that the president can't commit obstruction because he's basically above the law. Just because there wasn't enough direct evidence to tie the Russian govt to Trump does not mean that Trump is exonerated.
submitted by James_Skyvaper to democrats [link] [comments]

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submitted by Mamakenzo to u/Mamakenzo [link] [comments]

[EVENT]Gambling in the Island Federation

Currently a large portion of the Islandian economy comes from tourism, one specific facet of tourim though is largely ignored and that is gambling. Mahé, Seychelles is home to the Seychelles International Airport and a largely underdeveloped island making it an ideal place to start. Gambling will bring in a large amount of revenue along with a number of other industries that the state of Seychelles has chosen to legalize to increase gambling revenue. A number of private corporations have entered bids to open casinos in Victoria, five of which have been granted. drugs and prostitution have been legalized and the tax on alcohol has been lowered by the local government. Hopefully with time Victoria will rival Macau or Las Vegas.
submitted by H0b5t3r to worldpowers [link] [comments]

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submitted by k1ng7u7 to BitcoinGambling [link] [comments]

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[Table] IAmA: I used to work on cruise ships, AMA!

Verified? (This bot cannot verify AMAs just yet)
Date: 2012-04-04
Link to submission (Has self-text)
Link to my post
Questions Answers
Dose the crew have wild sex orgies below deck? None that I knew, although I heard some funny stories. One time we got to NYC, and two (crew) guys were led off the ship in handcuffs. I guess they had made some porno in their cabin with a 17 year old girl who's parents were less than impressed. Statutory rape all around for them...not a good scene.
But, as someone with my own cabin, who has no problem talking to girls...I did okay. Better than okay...not gonna lie. It was pretty awesome. Hard to have real relationships though...
Level any of them up to anal? Relevant username upvote...no comment.
Although, I do remember being in my cabin once with my roommate and we heard people banging away in the next room (walls are pretty thin, you hear everything), and we were like "wow...she's really screaming"
And then we remembered that the two guys in that room were gay. That was kind of an OMG moment.
Big Gay Frank...I could write a hell of a book about that guy, but I'd probably get sued.
Epic. Did you give him a high five? No, we fucking hated that guy. We messed with his shit so much. It was actually pretty cruel. It wasn't because he way gay, just to be straight (see what I did there?), because there are more than enough gay guys on ships...but it was because he was an ASSHOLE.
I remember one April Fools, we turned his toilet off from outside his cabin (from a lockbox in the hall) all day, and eventually he came out and complained about it...so we told him to go down and file a report. While he was doing that, we turned it back on so it worked when the guys came to fix it. They chewed him out, and left, and he went inside. We turned it off again. This happened more than twice.
We also once taped him to a pole in the theatre with carpet tape during drydock. We had these big rolls of plastic that we'd cover the carpets with, and we just held him against a pole, taped him up, and left him there. We got in shit for that. We also got in shit for taping his door shut from the outside so he was trapped in his cabin.
But the best Big Gay Frank story was one that took weeks to plan. We thought it up one night drunk in the crew bar. The second day every cruise we hold a "Captain's Welcome Aboard Cocktail" party for everyone, and I recorded what the bridge camera sees during that time that day. The next week, the night before we did it again, I put in the tape from the week before (during the afternoon, 12 hours off). It was like 5am, but we had footage from 5pm the week before. We called him, and convinced him he had slept all day, and was missing Captain's Cocktail. He told us we were full of shit, so we said "check the damn bridge channel if you don't believe us". He did. He freaked out, jumped into his suit and ran out the door. We were all waiting outside...drunk as fuck. That was awesome.
We also turned off his alarm clock (cut power to his room) a lot. He got in shit...but he was just a prick to everyone, so we justified it that way.
I upvoted this halfway through, knowing it was just going to continue to be awesome. We were so mean to that guy.
What was the craziest thing you did on the ship and got away with? Fell in love with a guest. We met on a cruise. She had just gotten out of college, and was celebrating, and we hit it off immediately. We were so inseperable that I actually brought back with me on a later cruise because she fell in love with me...and then she cried the whole day when that was over (the last day we ever saw each other).
We both knew it was against the rules, but we didn't even try to hide it. I remember sitting in the theatre one night the first week with her watching a show, and we were really cozy. One of my friends came by and was like "you're not even trying to hide it...are you trying to get fired?".
If it happened, I wouldn't have been sad about it. It was amazing. She was amazing.
And it never happened (me getting fired). They were so cool about it that they actually allowed me to bring her back on as a guest a month later. We still talk. She's married, and super happy...and I'm super happy for her, but I think it might have been the most romantic two weeks in both of our lives. Just wasn't meant to be...too much distance.
That was the craziest two weeks of my cruising life for sure. Bermuda cruises are probably the best party cruises for the crews, because you actually get overnights in ports.
Wow. Cool story. Thanks for sharing. Yeah...no worries. That was a great two weeks. Sometimes that's all you get. I'm not sad because it's over...just glad that it happened. I have photos (even the cheesy onboard ones of us in our suits/dresses).
Would have been a cooler story if it ended like Titanic. With credits?
Yay you did one! One question, how much of the boat is never seen by patrons? I assume it takes an army to run ships of thy size. Lots of crew spaces onboard, and most crew only see upstairs when they're working, so we need lots of space downstairs for everyone. Usually the ships have anywhere from 700-1500 crew on them...depending on size.
Unrelated question, what is the length and diameter of your penis? Speaking of unrelated size...um...hmm. RAMPART!
What do all these people do on their downtime (if there even is any) Do you get to hang out on the boat? I imagine you're talking about crew. The crew do a lot of working out, watching movies, drinking, hanging out in the crew badayroom, etc.
I was lucky, I had a good position, so I was allowed in guest areas when I wasn't working...so I used to go check out the shows, eat in the dining rooms, go to the lounges, sit up on the deck looking at stars (never seen stars like that...nothing can prepare you for how many stars there are at sea, until you're out there...wow), and lots of stuff. I really enjoyed it, but we all worked really hard. I averaged 90 hours a week.
How many possibilities are there for crew to go above deck, or are you mainly cooped up in hallways / rooms while you're there? Do you get your own cabins? Some crew members get their own cabins, and those are the same ones who are allowed upstairs. Usually crew share, and they're only allowed up when they're working.
That actually sounds really damn cool. But holy shit! 90 hours? Do you get paid by the hour or one fixed rate. Fixed rate. I worked it out one month, and I was working for $8.50/hr. We worked like dogs, but we played like animals.
Dogs are animals. Checkmate. Then we partied like dogs that like to party.
It's only fun if you get free beer and daiquiris And by extension, it's all gun and games until someone gets AIDS. Crew welfare had to throw one party a month, with free alcohol. They were awesome parties. I used to DJ some of them, and wow...sweaty.
Christmas Eve 2009 was pretty sweet. I was working in Brazil doing a fill in (couple of months), and had just been dumped by my girlfriend at home (over the phone after 4 years...sucked). I was dj-ing in the crew bar that night, and it went until 4am, and then it went back to my place until me and a girl from brazil and a girl from england kicked everyone out of my room. karma is beautiful.
And nobody got aids.
How did you become a cruise-ship employee? What is the term of service like for that kind of employment? I answered an ad in the weekly newspaper and had an interview with a hiring agent. It wasn't that hard to get work...I had already had a lot of experience, so it wasn't a stretch.
Usually for people like me the contracts are either 6 months on / 6 weeks off (unpaid), or 4 months on / 2 months off (paid). It all depends on the company. Crew usually work anywhere from 6-9 months, and officers usually work 10 weeks on / 10 weeks off (paid).
What's it take to become an officer? Not a lot...some navigation/safety courses, and then you start out as a second officer.
Ohh so many questions..! It seems you've worked onboard SP and MJ - which ship is your favorite and why? Favorite port / itinerary and why? Did you get to interact with the guests much? How did the entertainment-crew like yourself go along with the rest of the crew, say engine and hotel? Assuming you had your own company email-address as a productions manager? If yes, on avarage how many emails did you receive each day? :) What happens onboard stays onboard? Is partnering with other crew-members common? SP and MJ...do you work for Royal Caribbean?
What are the hours like for most people working on a cruise ship? I can't imagine the standard 9-5 Monday-Friday would fit the average employee. What is the hierarchy like aboard the ship for employees? How much control does the captain really have? I worked 10 hours a day, minimum, everyday for 6 months. Usually worked out to about 90 hrs a week. It's a crushing workload, but after ships...everything else seems easy. My job now feels like a holiday. It's a class system onboard ships. Crew at the bottom, hotel staff next, and then officers at the top. It's totally messed up, because the officers are usually the least trained people onboard, and have no transferrable job skills on land...but somehow they're gods on ships. Many hotel staff have more formal training for their jobs, but no respect from the officers...and I'd rather have a crew member save my life in an emergency than an officer.
officers are usually the least trained people on-board? What about the training they get all those years at school? It's more like months, and then they work their way up onboard. They do basic training and certification, and then start as second officers. Most of what they learn is onboard. I had more formal schooling than all of the Captains I worked with.
Did you ever get to enjoy any of the places the ship went? After the 6 months of work, you had 6 weeks unpaid off, correct? Did you go home? What did you do in those 6 weeks? I was lucky...I was usually first off the ship, and last on the ship. I saw EVERYTHING. I can't believe how lucky I got...I'm glad I took photos. I have 20,000 photos that I'll love looking at on my deathbed ;)
I usually went home for vacations. I tried to do as little as possible. Slept in, was lazy, didn't answer my phone, took a time out. Ship life is hard...I needed the break.
I did go to Montreal once on vacation to hang out with a girl I met...that was cool.
Formal schooling has very little relevance to seamanship. They have almost the same training we do. i find it interesting that in most sea disasters, it's never the officers who help...it's usually the crew/staff. the officers are usually nowhere to be seen.
"but somehow they're gods on ships." Just because you're trained to read a chart, or use a navigation computer, doesn't mean you're a god...by any stretch.
Because they are trained to run the ships. You're not. I could do any job on the bridge, with less than a year's training.
SP and MJ...do you work for Royal Caribbean? Favorite Royal Caribbean ship was the RD. Spent 2 whole years of my life on that ship.
Favorite port was usually Vancouver, because I could go home. But, as far as places that weren't home...wow...that's a tough one. I'll think about it on my way home from work and let you know later.
I was paid to be around guests...I was really lucky. I met some amazing people running around with my camera. I had a great job and lots of days where I was like "I can't believe I'm getting paid for this".
Usually the entertainment dep't got along really well...we were all outgoing, and partied pretty hard, so we knew everyone. People used to hate on the singers/dancers because they hardly worked, but they always forgot how many years it took them to get to that position, and the extra month they spend rehearsing before they even get on the ships.
I had an email...got tons. Not sure if there was an average, but it was a lot. A lot more than I get now.
Since crew can't hook up with guests, yeah, we all hooked up with each other. I dated a lot of other crew members, and even tried to start a life with one once we decided we wanted to go back to life on land. Didn't work out though...hard to maintain a normal life when your first date was the Great Wall Of China. We kind of fizzled...ship relationships are hard to maintain, because they're so good when they start. It's hard to top the Great Wall when you work 9-5 at a normal job.
Thanks so much for your answers! I'm so excited to hear your version, almost all is pretty much identical with the stories I've heard from crew working for other cruise liners, even down to relationship with other crew members :-) The girls in the entertainment dept are hot commodity in the other departments onboard, as I've heard.. :-) I didn't notice any footage from the RD? And yes, I've heard she's a nice ship.. Btw, I work in freight forwarding, I move orders from rccl's suppliers to the ships, so I regularly email with miami and various crew onboard the ships. I know there's a lot of emails in that company.. Always fun to see the chief engineer desperate for a bolt and gasket while hotel need their wine and entertainment need their costumes and lighting, all yesterday.. Last question - did you attend any drydocks? If yes, I assume your task was to document it all? Thanks again! Cruise ships are a big operation, that's for sure. It blew me away once I started to see what really goes into (and off of) those ships in each port. I remember a line of gas trucks in Ushuaia (Argentina) that lasted all day once. I couldn't believe we could hold that much gas. Truck after truck, after truck, after truck. From when we got there, until we left. I made this video with my own gear again, in my cabin while I was onboard. Didn't have space on the video gear upstairs, so after the drydock I put it together in my cabin whenever I had time. Sorry about the voiceover quality, it was a cheap mic, in a loud room (my cabin), on a ship. You can't get away from noise on a ship. Drydocks...intense. Other than a newbuild, it doesn't get any rawer than that on cruise ships. Those were pretty memorable experiences...almost more memorable than any experiences with guests.
What kind of personal time were you given to explore the places that the cruise visited? I had lots of personal time. For me, I worked when the ship was at sea. When the ship was docked, as long as the TV channels were running and the satellite dishes were tracking, I could go off and explore. I did everything I could. I knew it was my once-in-a-lifetime chance, and I went for it. Usually I was the first person off, last person on...and I tried to get as far from the ship as I could. Went to the pyramids, on safari, diving, rented jeeps and cars, stayed in resorts, stayed up all night partying (all over the world).
It was awesome. I'm so glad I did it.
What advice do you have for people who want to leave the little port "bubble" that the ships usually take you to? I did this in Cozumel and found a dive bar with cheap local beer and homemade guacamole. The only problem with that, is if something happens...nobody is going to wait. We used to leave people behind in Cozumel every week, because they wouldn't make it back to the ship in time. If you're on a ship tour, the ship waits...if not, you're on your own.
I'd love to do it again, but I'm a little intimidated because I have no idea what is beyond the port or how safe things are beyond the bubble. Any recommendations in general about doing this, or specific to Belize would be great. Not sure about Belize...never been.
Thanks for the reply, and thanks for doing this AMA. Your responses have been top notch! I've got a stomach flu...haha.
For people who plan on going onto a cruise in the near future, what are a few things you think we should know before booking one? Such as stay away from this or do that etc etc... Go on the tours, meet as many people as you can onboard, try to get cabins away from the public spaces/lifeboats, and realize that the longer the cruise...the older the clientele.
Also...don't forget to tip people...a lot of times, that's most of their wages.
What happens to criminals on the ships? If I murdered a passenger would I be put in the brig? Did they even have a brig? Would I be arrested at the next place the ship docked? We have security onboard. Yes, yes and yes. It's happened...a few times. Not while I was onboard, but I've heard stories.
I heard this story from one ship that a guy killed his wife in his room, threw her off the balcony and didn't throw hard enough...she landed on the boat deck, right outside of the dining room while people were eating dinner. They went up to the room, and the whole place was covered in blood. Craazy.
If the ship is say, in Norway, would they be charged/arrested by Norway's laws? They're usually ushered out of the country and then dealt with at home (or in the US), if it's something that happened on the ship. Local laws don't really have anything to do with crime onboard. But, if it's off the ship, then they deal with local laws.
Do you get to eat the food that cruise ship guests get to eat or do they give you something completely different? Both.
I was able to eat in the guest dining rooms (if I signed up to eat in there and paid tips), and I was able to eat in the speciality restaurants (discount). Most crew can, but most crew don't. There's an unspoken rule on ships that crew don't eat in guest areas, even when they're allowed. It sucks that it's that way...they're usually allowed (if they sign up and pay) but it's frowned on when it happens...so it never happens.
The crew food is actually pretty good. In some cases better. It's realy international, and it's healthier. We don't waste as much, and we don't have the fatty sweet stuff they have upstairs.
You could always tell when we got hard ice cream in the mess that a lot of people had died that cruise, because they used our cold storage for bodies when the morgue was full. Happened a few times...always on Panama Canal cruises. Creepy, but true.
What...the actual fuck... I know, eh?
Not sure if kidding... Not kidding at all. No joke. I know it sounds hard to believe, but yeah...Panama Canal cruises are killers. People go there because it's a "bucket list" thing, and the demographics on that cruise are way older than almost any other cruise. It's a big deal for old people.
People always end up spending too much time outside on canal day, and people always die. We try to go around and keep people hydrated and out of the sun, but if they're on their balcony...not much we can do. We don't know until they're gone.
You could always tell when we got hard ice cream in the mess that a lot of people had died that cruise, because they used our cold storage for bodies when the morgue was full. Happened a few times...always on Panama Canal cruises. Creepy, but true. Yep. And someone always dies canal day. Always. My first week onboard ships, I was sitting in the crew bar with the trumpet player in the orchestra, and he was "i'll bet you $5 someone dies canal day". I was like "fuck, are you kidding? that's sick...i'm not betting you". Sure enough someone died. I think 3 people died that day. People always die on Panama Canal cruises...they actually go on the cruise to die. I can't remember a Costa Rica port day, or a Curacao port day (either side of the canal) that we weren't met at the pier with a hearse.
Wat.
What was the highest mortality rate for any one cruise? Are there seriously fully functioning morgues on these cruises?That can perform autopsy and everything? No, they just store people. they don't get into that. i'd say 5 people on a panama cruise once. that was a bad week. other than that, there was one or two a few times. it was fairly regular...they are big communities. shit happens.
I remember on one Panama cruise, someone died in the gym bench pressing. The captain got called and showed up and said "that's why i don't work out". Haha...awesome. Probably not the smartest thing to say, but he didn't care. I'm just bummed I never got to play "Panama" on the ship's PA when we were going through the canal. I played it on the pool deck once, and that was fun...but I wanted to blast it everywhere.
Moving a ship that big between the oceans requires a human's lifeforce to make the trip successfully or what? We used to joke that we ran the ship of the power of masturbation, and the broken dreams of third world children. people on ships are pretty dark and jaded. ;)
Why Panama? Yellow Fever, malaria? No...it's old people, and exposure/dehydration usually. or just old people and natural causes. it's a bucket list cruise.
One thing that always puzzled me is how cheap these cruises are. So my guess is they make money off of casinos, drinks and food? Yep...you nailed it. Casinos, drinks, food, tours, and shopping programs all equal $$$. People spend as much on the ship as they do on their cruise ticket usually. One ship I worked on did $1mil/week in the Casino.
Thanks for the confirmation :) Which cruise lines do you recommend for first timers if you can pick any one of them and time/location is not a factor and on a typical/average budget? How old are you and what do you like doing? That matters a lot.
Well.. crap.. I don't know what you do for work, so I don't know. It all depends on what you do. There are lots of different jobs on ships. If you're a graphic designer, then I'd say it's not a great job, but if you're a Frank Sinatra impersonator, then it's a great job. Every country has hiring agents, and the big lines have websites that you can apply to, but I think they still use agents for interviews, so it's better just to find out who they are and go straight to them. As far as an interesting thing to do to find out about the world...hell ya. If you're young and you have nothing tying you down...it's awesome. Better than any backpacking I've ever done (and I've done lots). You get paid to freaking travel, and hang out with cool young people who have enough personality to leave home and explore the world. You might meet people in high school, and you might think they're your friends, but the people you meet on ships...they're forever. The best people I've ever met worked on ships.
Oh and, I was thinking of doing some work on a cruise ship after (danish) college, can you recommend this line of work?
How about 25 years old. Live in the US. I like all sorts of adventure sports. Cost isn't necessarily an issue. I don't want to waste money though. Sports staff would be cool. Work on the flowriders on the big ships. I know a couple guys from Brazil that installed a few of them. Fun job. You work on the rock climbing wall, the sports deck, and the waterpark. Some other bs mixed in there during down time to get your 10 hrs a day, but it's one of the more-fun jobs for sure. One of my good friends did that, and we used to take the rock climbing gear off the ship with us in Alaska and go rock climbing on our own. So.Much.Fun. I skateboard/surf, but haven't been on a ship with a flowrider...when i take a cruise, i'll do one of those ships for sure...just for that.
A couple of questions, 1) What kind of work did you do on the ship? 1 - I started as Stage Staff (theatre flunkie), and then got promoted to Sound & Light Tech. After that, I was promoted again to Video Tech, and then again to Head Video Tech. I did that for a few years, changed companies and worked as the Stage/Broadcast Manager on a ship. I worked there for a year, and then took a break from ships. In 2009, I went back to the first company as a Head Video Tech again and worked for a year. I'm off ships now...boring!
2)Do people ever fall off of the boats? 2 - Only Oscar falls off the ship. Nobody falls out of the boats. You only get into the boats when the ship is sinking though ;)
3) Also is the music in your video from a Grand Turismo game? 3 - No, the music is from a great band from the 90s called Slide Five. Wish they were still around...they were really great.
Going from doing sound to doing video is not a promotion! It is if that's what you went to school for, and want to do with your life.
Also, how expensive are the crew bars? Is it expensive as shit like it is for guests, or are the prices more "normal"? $1.25 for a beer $2 for mixed drinks/wine...last time I was on a ship. Might have gone up a bit by now.
What do you do now that you are off of the ship? High-end corporate A/V. Basically, I'm a professional mover. If you need someone to move your whole living room into a cube van and then set it up somewhere, and then put it all back in the van, and bring it back to you...then I'm your guy. That was a nice thing about working A/V on ships...everything stays in one place, and doesn't move. So nice to work a night, and then not have to pack everything up. I could set a band up, and leave them setup for 6 months. If you've ever done sound, you know how nice that must sound, eh?
I have. Did some pyro work, so I know how much of a PITA loading up road cases can be. Know any info on the IT for the ship? Do they manage every aspect of IT (POS, terminals, network, communication, etc...) or do they just manage the intranet? They manage it all...IT really is a good job.
Where would you recommend someone go to relax and enjoy the warmth? I like brazil, hawaii, thailand, eastern caribbean...those are all great.
Have you ever been to grand turk? I was just there with my family a couple days ago and it was beautiful. No one tried to sell you anything either like the other ports we went to. No...always wanted to go there. I'm Canadian, so I really want to see it. I think at some point we were going to help them out and it was going to become part of Canada (but it never happened)...and I've been curious about it since then. Flew over it once...looked nice.
The eastern Caribbean is beautiful...all of it.
People try to sell you stuff in every port...but some are better than others.
So eastern carribean is not the same as the carribeans everyone hears about? It's smaller scale, and not as intense. i think when most people think "caribbean", they're actually thinking Jamaica or Trinidad.
What is the punishment for drugs on the ship? if youre caught smoking marijuana for example, will they hand you ever to the cops once the cruise ends? Yep, and then you're fucked.
What was your favorite place traveling through, or rather 'cruising' through? Just to cruise? Alaska...by far. There aren't cruises like that anywhere else in the world, except Norway and New Zealand...which are also pretty cool, but Alaska is something else. The Inside Passage is phenomenal, and a ship is the only way you can see it.
As far as tropical destinations...Seychelles is heaven on Earth.
Seychelles is heaven on Earth. Sounds interesting, tell us more. It's just amazing. Beautiful island, great people, isolated, clearest water I've ever swam in...it's just perfect.
Anyone ever fall overboard? If so, what happens? Also, what are the captains like? are the cool or do they have God complexes? Only Oscar falls overbord.
American and Scandinavian captains are usually pretty cool, and Greek and Italian ones are usually not pretty cool. Exceptions to both rules.
They ALL have God complexes, and they all like really young women. I remember one captain brought his wife onboard, and we were all like "hey, you brought your granddaughter...that's cool!" Not cool.
What's the best way to sneak alcohol aboard? From what i've seen working on ships, it's NOT in your carry-on luggage. Especially once the cruise starts. You're searched every time you get on the ship, and so much booze is confiscated, it's ridiculous. You get it back at the end of the cruise, but they catch so many people.
Security is pretty tight, and these days they open everything. I've had all my bags ripped open so many times, that you know it's going to happen...so you can't just put a bottle in a bag.
The best way I've heard so far is to put it in a bag (in something not-so-obvious, and maybe not shaped like a bottle), and then in the most obvious place you can find in the bag (the place someone would see first when they open it), put a HUGE dildo right there. They'll see that, get embarrassed, close the bag, and you're good. Smile at him or her like you know where it's going tonight, and you're on your way.
Worked for a friend, but you never know...that takes dedication to pull off.
Maybe just get to know your cabin attendant, and persuade him to go buy some booze for you at the crew bar. Ya never know.
Did I just say that out loud? No...don't do that.
What are the best and most fun jobs on a cruise ship? How can one score 'deals' related to booking cruise ships? I would say the best job on a ship is a feature entertainer, but as far as the "real" jobs on a ship...I'd say the bridge or hotel technical/admin jobs are the best, followed by the cruise staff/activities managecruise director path. They have a blast.
If you have a university degree and are good with kids, Youth Staff is a GREAT job. Met some really cool Youth Staff on ships...they have fun.
Youth Activities Managers...sometimes not so fun. I remember my girlfriend on one ship was a YAM, and she came home one day...covered in food and asked me "you make the same amount I make, right?" I'm like "uh huh"...she's like "I hate you."
Deals on ships...check their websites for last minute deals. Those are the best deals on ships.
Which are the jobs that'd allow you access to the guest facilities and most contact with the guests? Anything in the hotel/entertainment dep't. they have the most contact with the guests, and the most privileges in that sense.
What are the worst jobs? Bartenders, waitresses, cabin attendants, deck & engine crew (we call them blueboys)...those are shitty jobs.
But again, they don't think of it that way. North Americans are spoiled people...we don't have as good an attitude about life as they do. They seem okay, and in their countries they're still making better money than they would at home (and a lot send most of their money home).
We piss it away on crap in ports, and complain about having to do tour loads in the morning. We suck.
Does for example, light/sound tech count as entertainment? Or does it only go as far as singers/dancers/comedians? Light/sound is entertainment, and they have a lot of contact with guests.
Last updated: 2012-04-09 06:23 UTC
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