Which Casino Games Have the Best and Worst Odds?

highest odds on roulette table

highest odds on roulette table - win

I live in a small mining town in the mountains of Colorado. Someone is building a massive casino nearby, Pictures Included

I grew up in a small mountain town named Eureka. It was founded in the late 1800s during the gold rush, but after the mines dried up the town began its slow descent into decay. Half the houses are empty or abandoned now.
You can see a picture of the kind of houses here in Eureka:
First house
Second house
When a massive construction project began nearby, it was the talk of the town for weeks. Why would they build something in a sleepy dying town like Eureka? It wasn’t until my sister Selene talked to a few construction workers that we discovered they were building a casino.
A casino up in the mountains, over two hours away from Denver. None of us could understand why they’d chosen here of all places. After a few months of work, the casino was done.
I took a picture of the town with the completed casino in the background to the right. The ten-story-structure sticks out like a sore thumb off in the distance.
Town+Casino
After the casino opened, they hired a few dozen members of the town, offering high paying jobs to work as dealers or cleaning staff. I was already employed as a firefighter, but my sister Selene got a job as a blackjack dealer. She’s a widow with two young kids, so the paycheck was a real lifesaver.
Still, something about the situation seemed too good to be true. The jobs over there paid far too well, and the management was far too accommodating. The fire station where I work is located high on a hill overlooking the town, so I began watching the casino from a distance each day.
I had initially thought that the casino was located in a terrible location, but I was apparently wrong. True, Eureka was hours from any major city, but despite that, a bus full of people arrived every morning and left every evening.
One night I was over at my parent’s house and had dinner with Selene and her kids. I asked her about her experience as a dealer.
“It’s Ok,” she said. “Just a little boring I guess.”
“Boring?” I asked. “I’m surprised you don’t have your hands full.”
“Why’s that?” she asked. “It’s like you said, Eureka’s too small. I never have people playing cards. The casino is almost always completely empty.”
I wasn’t sure what to make of that. If the place was always empty, what happened to the people who I’d seen arriving on buses? “I’ve been keeping an eye on the building,” I said. “A bus full of people typically arrives around 9 AM every day.”
“Really?” she asked, looking confused. “If that’s true, I’ve never seen them.
“I can see it from the fire station,” I said. “If you head out for a smoke break at 9 AM, you’ll probably see them arriving.”
“Interesting,” she said. “I’ll do that. If they’re being processed for their organs or something, I’ll let you know.” She laughed.
“Har har,” I said sarcastically.
The next night she sent me a text calling me over. When I arrived, she was nearly breathless with excitement.
“Orin, You were right,” she said. “A big group of people did arrive, but they didn’t walk into my part of the casino. Instead, they all walked into an elevator at the back of the building. I’m not sure where that goes.” She looked thoughtful. “It was weird. They looked… How can I say it? Desperate? Something about the whole situation was very off. I’m gonna check out the elevator tomorrow.”
I told her to be careful, though, to be honest, I was excited to hear about what she discovered. When I visited my parent’s house the next night, I found her two kids there alone. They told me that Selene had never returned from work.
I called all her friends, then all our neighbors, but no one had seen her since she left for work that morning. Our conversations regarding the casino flooded my mind, then a plan began to form.
Early the next morning I walked across town in my nicest pair of jeans and a button-up shirt. I pushed through the door to the casino and saw that Selene wasn’t lying. The place was all but deserted. Three dozen slot machines crowded the walls surrounding a few tables interspersed throughout the floor of the casino. The only players in the whole building were Bob and Donald, two locals.
I walked up to a nearby table where Bridget, a girl I’d gone to high school with, was shuffling cards. She broke into a grin when she saw me. “Hey Orin, you here for a few rounds of blackjack?”
“I wish,” I said. “No, I’m here to ask about Selene. She never made it home last night.”
Bridget’s expression darkened. “Really? Have you asked around?”
“I already called around. Have you seen her?”
She shook her head. “No, our schedules rarely line up. I’ll be sure to let you know if I--” Her eyes focused on something behind me, and she cut herself off.
I turned around to see the casino’s pit boss watching us both. He was a tall thin man in an impeccably clean black suit. When I turned back towards Bridget, she was looking down at the table and shuffling cards absent-mindedly.
“Well, if you hear anything, let me know,” I said.
She nodded, so I turned around and headed for the pit boss. I stuck out my hand. The temperature of his hand was so hot that I had to pull my hand away after a few seconds.
“Have… have you seen my sister Selene?” I asked. “She hasn’t been seen since her shift here yesterday.”
He smiled. “Sir, this floor is for players. You’re more than welcome to head to the tellers for chips, but barring that I’m afraid I’ll have to ask you to leave.”
I stared at him for a long second before stalking towards the door. When I looked back, he was talking with Bridget.
I checked my watch. 8:55 AM, just as I’d planned. I walked around the back of the building and waited as the morning bus pulled around the building. I waited for the telltale hiss of the opening doors and the sound of people descending before I rounded the corner and joined the crowd. None of them paid any particular attention to me as I walked with them into the casino.
The crowd walked through a side door down a hallway to an elevator. Small groups of people entered the elevator as the rest of us waited for our turn. I shot a glance at the casino patrons, surprised at their diversity. There seemed to be people from all different countries and ethnicities. I heard one speaking Japanese and another speaking what sounded like an African language.
My turn came along with a few other patrons in the elevator. A sickly woman hobbled into the elevator beside me carrying an IV that was still connected to one of her veins. We piled in and rode up to the top.
The elevator rose for a few long seconds. I wasn’t sure what I would find, but I steeled myself for something horrible. The elevator’s speaker let out a TING, then the doors opened.
We all walked out onto what looked like a standard casino. Another few dozen slot machines ringed the walls, but on this floor, they were almost all occupied by customers. I took in the scene, confused at why they’d have a ground floor that was almost completely empty when this place was almost--
Selene was dealing cards at a nearby table.
I jogged over and sat down at an open seat. None of the players around me paid me much attention.
“Selene!” I said. “Are you OK? Did you spend the night here last night?”
Her eyes were glassy and confused. She looked up at me with a dumb expression and didn’t respond to my question.
“Selene?” I asked.
“What’s your bet?” she asked me. “This table is for blackjack players only.”
“I…” I trailed off, looking at the players around me. None of them were betting with chips of any kind. “What’s the minimum bet?” I asked.
“Three years,” she responded.
“Three years then,” I said, not knowing what that referred to.
Selene nodded, then began dealing cards. I shot a look down at my hand. King and a 9. Selene dealt out cards for herself, showing a 9. I stood, then leaned forward again. “Should I call the police? Are you--”
“Congratulations,” she said tonelessly.
An almost impossibly warm hand grabbed my shoulder. I spun to see the pit boss I’d spoken to earlier. He gave an impressed smile. “Orin, was it? I’m impressed, truly. Would you mind if I had a word with you?”
I shot a look back at Selene who was dealing the next round of cards. Then I got to my feet, balling my hands into fists. “What did you do to her?”
The pit boss clasped his hands behind his back. “Nothing more, and nothing less than what I’m going to do to you. That is, offer you the chance to play.”
“What the hell is that supposed to mean?”
The pit boss nodded his head towards a nearby slot machine. A woman in a wheelchair pulled a lever and watched the flashing numbers spin. They exploded in a cacophony of sirens and flashing lights. “WINNER WINNER WINNER!” The machine screeched.
The woman in the wheelchair put her feet on the ground and stood up on a pair of wobbly legs that had clearly never been used before.
“As in any other casino,” the pit boss said, “you must wager for the chance to win.”
“She... won the use of her legs?” I asked, feeling light-headed. “Wait,” I said. “I played blackjack just now. ‘Three years,’ Selene told me. What does ‘three years’ mean?” I asked.
“Three years of life, of course. Did you win?”
My mouth felt dry. “I-- Yes, I won.”
He smiled warmly. “Congratulations. I hope you enjoy them. I can tell you from personal experience that watching the decades pass is a bore. Give it some time and you’ll be back to spend them.”
I watched the pit boss’s face. He couldn’t have been more than a few years older than me, and I was in my early thirties. I looked around at the casino. No one was playing with chips of any kind. “So what?” I asked. “I won years of life. That woman won the use of her legs. What else can a person win here?”
“Oh, almost anything. They can win almost anything you can imagine.”
A cold feeling settled in my stomach. “And what do they wager?”
His eyes flashed with greed. “Almost anything. They can wager almost anything you can possibly imagine. Anything equal in value to the item they want in return.” He nodded towards a nearby roulette table.
A man stood by the table, cradling his hands. “Another finger,” he called out. He only had three fingers remaining on his left hand. As I watched, the ball came to a stop, and another finger disappeared from his left hand.
The pit boss extended his hands. “Feel free to try any of our games. Bet and win whatever you’d like.” He reached out and snatched my hand. A feeling of intense warmth passed up my arm to my chest. “There,” he said. “I’ve even given you some house money to get you started. An extra decade of life, on me.”
I ripped my hand away, staring at him in horror. Then I looked back at Selene. Something clicked in my mind. “You offered her the chance to play. What did she want?” I asked.
“Her husband,” the pit boss said. “Quite the sad story. He died two years ago. She wanted him brought back to her.”
“What did she wager?” I asked.
“She wanted the chance to win a soul, the most valuable object in existence. I’m sure you can imagine what she needed to wager for the chance to win it. What she wagered is unimportant. The important question is: What do you want, Orin?”
I stared at Selene with a flat expression. “I’m sure you can imagine.”
His eyes flashed with greed again. “How wonderful. The casino could always make use of another dealer. Feel free to make your wager at any one of our games; I’ll be eagerly awaiting the results of your night. Oh, and do take advantage of our waitresses. We always supply food and drink for ‘high rollers’.” He walked away.
I spent the next few hours trying to decide which game to play. I was going to be wagering my soul, so I wanted the highest chance possible. Slots and roulette were out. I’d done some reading online about counting cards, so I figured that blackjack gave me the best odds.
I walked up to Selene’s table and sat down. “Bet?” she asked with that same toneless voice. “Three years,” I said.
I spent the next hour or so doing my best to remember how to count cards. I knew that low cards added one to my count and high cards decreased it by one, but the casino used three decks. I had read something about how that was supposed to change my calculation, but I couldn’t quite remember how.
Every time I won a hand, I cursed myself for not putting everything on the line. Every time I lost, I breathed a prayer of thanks that I’d waited. And all the while, I kept track of the count.
I had lost fifteen years of life when the count finally reached +5.
“Bet?” Selene asked.
“I wager my soul so you can be free,” I said.
The table around me fell silent. Selene’s eyes flickered, but she showed no other emotion as she dealt the cards. I watched my first card, punching the air in excitement when I saw a Jack. My excitement turned to ash when my second card was a four. Fourteen.
I looked at her hand. One card was facedown, but the faceup card was a King. I swore loudly, staring down at my hands.
“Hit?” she asked. The entire table was silently watching me.
“Hit,” I said, not looking down. The table erupted in cheers. I looked down to see a 7 atop my two other cards. 21. Blackjack.
I looked at Selene who flipped over her facedown card to reveal a 9. 19. I won.
The glassy look left her eyes immediately. She looked around in surprise, then her eyes locked on mine. “Orin?” she asked, then almost immediately began to cry. The entire casino broke out in cheers.
I grabbed her hand and headed for the elevator. The doors had begun to close when the pit boss reached out with a hand to stop them.
“Congratulations,” he said, beaming. He seemed to be honestly excited.
“Shouldn’t you be upset?” I asked.
“Not at all. Casinos love it when we have big winners. It inspires the other players to make larger bets. I imagine I’ll gain two or three dealers before the night is through from your performance.”
“Great,” I said flatly. “Now let us go.”
“Not yet,” he said. “You didn’t just win, Orin. You got a blackjack. And blackjack pays out 1.5 times your bet. You won your sister’s soul and more.”
I stared, not sure what to say. “What are you saying? I won half a soul extra?”
The pit boss grinned wildly. “Just remember what I said. You’ll find living for decades and decades to be a boring experience. After a few centuries, you’ll be back to gamble that half a soul away. Congratulations!”
He removed his hand, and the elevator doors slammed shut.
I helped Selene back to her house. Her children were relieved. I watched them cry, then moved into the kitchen to start making dinner.
It’s been a few days since that experience. The casino is still out there, and buses full of people still arrive. I… I cut my hand pretty bad a few days later. When I checked it an hour later, it had already healed, no scar or anything. I’m not sure exactly what I won at that casino, but there’s no way I’m ever going back.
X
submitted by Worchester_St to nosleep [link] [comments]

Minigames to play with NPCs, with your Dice only. (Idea+rules)

  1. Blackjack: Each player get's to roll every dice besides the double didget D10 once. Whoever reaches 21 first, wins.
  2. Sabacc: Same as blackjack, but you try to reach 23 and the player can add or subtrackt the die. They have to decide before throwing. After one player won, everyone can roll two dice that are left. If they roll a 2 and a 3, they steal the win.
  3. Shell game: The NPC and the player both roll a D4, the player wins, if both numbers are the same.
  4. Betting on Horse Races: The players roll on initiative and then play three rounds of rolling an D20 for their horse. Highest total wins. The horses have different modifiers, the higher the modifier, the lesser the winnings.
  5. Knife Game: You have to roll a D4, then a D6, then, D8, D10, D12 and add your Dex bonus. The roll always has to be higher then the previous roll or you cut yourself.
  6. Drinking Game: The player and NPC roll a consave each round, the DC starts at 10 and then gets higher with each round.
  7. Armwrestling: Roll strengh against each other for three rounds.
  8. Russian Roulette: You roll a D6. If the number is the same as the one the DM rolled, you die instantly.
  9. Regular Roulette: DM rolls 4d10. If he hits 4 or 40 the house wins automatically unless the player specifically bet on 4 or 40. The player bets on odd or even. If they guess correctly, they double their bet. A player can bet on a number. If they guess correctly they win 35x.
  10. Three-Dragon Ante: Each player buys into the game, then secretly rolls 3d6 and records the result of each of their dice (threes are equal to zero). Then players may place their bets or yield. Once all bets are equal between the remaining players, the players reveal their dice. The player with the lowest total result wins the game.
  11. Blisters: Each player places their bet, then rolls 1d12 in public and 1d12 in secret and totals their results. The highest total result, without going over 24, will win the game. After their initial roll, a player may choose to stay with their total or they may choose to add 1d12 to their results until they reach a satisfying total or go over 24. Each additional d12 is rolled publicly.
  12. Cho-Han: You roll 2d6 secretly and guess if the total is Cho (Even) or Han (Odd). Players could gamble against an NPC or against eachother!
  13. The Hunt: Before play can begin, players must agree on the value of a ‘swing’ and a ‘miss’. The swing is usually assigned a lower value. For example: a ‘swing’ may costs 1 GP, and a ‘miss’ may costs 2 GP. Then, each player ‘swings’ by rolling 2d4. If the roll result is a double, the player ‘Hits’, any other result is a ‘miss’. Each time a player 'swings' they must place the agreed upon value in front of them in a stack. Each time a player 'misses' they must place the agreed upon value in front of them in a separate stack. Once a player has scored a total of three hits they have finished and may stop ‘swinging’. When all the players have finished, the player who has placed the least amount of money on the table wins. In the event of a tie, those players divide the winnings evenly.
  14. Golf: Each player in Turn rolls a D20. Whoever gets 18 different numbers first, wins. (Different numbers equal missed shots)
  15. Hydra: A dice game where the two players begin by rolling opposed d4s, and whoever has the lower number now rolls a d6. The game continues, escalating the die size until someone rolls an 11 or more, at which point they win.
  16. Forty Two Knights of Nidar: From 3 or more rounds, select the die result which gets your total closest to 42 without going over. Using at most 1 instance of each of the following set: Roll Initiative, or a skill (and narratively framing said use in game) using INT, WIS, or CHA as base, your opponent then chooses a skill from the set (framing skill-use in game), as an opposed check. No skill may be used twice by the same player. The DM may apply a modifier to each roll, for the effective difficulty of using said skills in a fantasy gambling card-game. For each opposed roll, save the result of each die rolled (Before bonuses; If a roll uses Advantage or Disadvantage, etc, use both dice.) The results on the dice (before bonuses) are placed in a list. The winner of each opposed match may choose which value to apply to their total from the list, or may exchange one of their previously selected dice with a newly selected one from the list. Once used, the die roll in the list is discarded. After the winner of the round chooses, then the loser chooses from the remaining set to either add or swap one element from the list. The rounds continue until one player chooses to fold, fails to match an ante, or gets higher than 42 as their total. More than 2 players may play in this fashion.
  17. Swindle stones: Each player has 2 to 5 d4, and roll in secret. They then guess or “bid” on what was rolled that must increase, first by value then by repeated numbers. As an example: one 3, then two 2s, then two 3s, three 1s etc... until a player believes the other has busted and calls. The dice are then revealed, if the dice show what was bid they win and the one who called loses a die, if the dice do not the one who last bid loses a die. The game ends when a player is out of dice. And the one who has dice left at the end wins the game.
  18. Orc Roulette: 1d10 rolls, a 1 means you chop off one of your own fingers, a 10 means your opponent of your choosing has to roll a 10 or chop off one of their own fingers
  19. Viper's Kiss: A venomous snake is kept in a bag on the table. The pot increases until someone rolls snake-eyes (0s on 2D10s). Whoever rolls snake-eyes has to reach into the bag, pull out the snake, and kiss it. (Roll dex higher then the snake) If theyre bitten, the last roller gets the pot, if not, the snake-kisser gets the pot.
  20. Acey-duecey: 2D6. Every roll of 7 or 11 ups the pot by at least the ante, rolling a 1 and 2 (acey-duecey,) wins the pot and all other players finish their current container of drink
  21. Who Buys: Everyone rolls a 1D6, lowest roll buys the next round. Ties go to 1v1 roll-offs
  22. Cheat-to-win: Two players roll equal-sided dice simultaneously for the high value after the roll they can decide to roll themselves or make the apponent reroll. Loser takes two shots of hard drink or a full mug of ale/wine.
  23. Familiar pocket-monster battle: Those who can summon a familiar (demon/elemental/beast) must summon their familiar to roll the dice for them, highest roll familiar gets to inflict damage against all other familiars. First incapacitated or dead familiar loses and the summoner must summon a new familiar and lend it, for one task only, to the winner of the last round at a later date, OR the summoner must gift the familiar of the winner of the last round with a magical charm/trinket of at least +1 strength in any attribute
  24. Middle's 7: The player makes their bet/ante and chooses between Upper, Lower, or Middle 7. The house rolls 2d6 and if the player correctly guessed the sum was above or below 7, they double their money, and triple it if they correctly guessed it'd be exactly 7.
  25. Weighted Scales: This game heavily favors the house, but the odds can be made better by changing the dice to d4s. The player makes their bet/ante, and then chooses a number from 1-6. The house rolls 3d6, and the player wins their bet back once for each roll that matches their number. (So they can win up to triple their bet)
  26. Five to One: Player Rolls d4+d20 If d4 Equals d20 x$5 Pay-out. If d4 Greater than d20 x$2 Pay-out. Otherwise Lose.
  27. Race to 30: Each Turn Every Player Rolls 2d6, if any Dice Roll a One (1) instead it is treated as 2d6 from now on. Ei, if a 1,4 was Rolled, it would be 2d6+4 for that Turn, and next Turn onwards that Player would Roll 3d6 (if they didn't Roll any more 1s). First Player to 30 Wins! (They will need to have Rolled Multiple 1s, though they can be on separate Turns, as they are Cumulative).
  28. Stones: The player(s) are given a pair of bone dice.. 1d6 and 1d4 If the player rolls above a 7 they double their bet. If they roll under 7 they lose their bet.. If a player manages to roll the same number on both dice.. (1,1 2,2 3,3 or 4,4) They win triple their bet.
submitted by _DarthSyphilis_ to d100 [link] [comments]

The case against Lockdown backed by data and numbers

The case against Lockdown backed by data and numbers
Im a fairly heavy player of Gwent and have finished in or around the Top 200 of ProRank every season since Master Mirror launched. On average I play over 600 games a season and have a fairly good idea of what the meta each season generally looks like. My favourite faction to play as since Witcher 3 Gwent has been Nilfgaard. So even as a Nilfgaard main I have a serious problem with Lockdown being in the game in its current form.
Below is the summary of the last 6 seasons I have played in ProRank against Lockdown
ProRank Stats vs Lockdown (Total = Total matches played by me in a season; Odds = % of total matches I played that were against Lockdown)
As can be seen in the table above, I have a fairly decent record against Lockdown (except Season of the cat). However, as can be seen, during the current Season the Playrate of Lockdown has skyrocketed to more than double of it prev highest playrate (That was during a completely broken Skellige Warriors Second Wind Meta). I have seen many ideas floating around from Lockdown being necessary to counter Viy and Lippy Decks but I have a positive winrate against both those decks this season without having used Lockdown against them. The much needed card buffs to the Nilfgaard pool also played their part.
Deckbuilding is one of the most fundamental aspects of Gwent and most decks with synergies are built around their leader. Lockdown denies the opponent of using their leader which is kind of harsh and rewards or punishes players simply on the basis of queue roulette. At the beginning Lockdown had a harsh penalty of having the least provisions in the game but Power creep and buffs have rendered that downside to be practically non existent. This will get to the point where any minor buffs to Nilfgaard cards have to be thought out just because they would be easier to include in a Lockdown deck which would not be fair on the cards themselves.

The Proposal:
As much as I would like see Lockdown deleted from the game, I find it more annoying than anything. A rework/balance around extra Provisions seems to be a more appropriate "Nerf". A suggestion would be to disable the Leader ability for 1 or 2 rounds of the game which would force the opponent to think in which of the 3 rounds they wouldnt be able to use their leader. That would be a fair change since you either force out the leader early in R1 which isnt ideal in most cases in current Gwent or risk being locked out of using the ability.

The conclusion:
Lockdown while being an interesting leader to be in the game is good only when it is niche. When it becomes rampant in the meta, the game becomes unfun and annoying. A rework/ nerf in provisions is what I would propose without any major nerfs to the existing Nilfgaard pool of cards.
submitted by furqan1411 to gwent [link] [comments]

I live in a small mining town in the mountains of Colorado. Someone is building a massive casino nearby, Pictures Included

I grew up in a small mountain town named Eureka. It was founded in the late 1800s during the gold rush, but after the mines dried up the town began its slow descent into decay. Half the houses are empty or abandoned now.
You can see a picture of the kind of houses here in Eureka:
Abandoned House
Non-abandoned House
When a massive construction project began nearby, it was the talk of the town for weeks. Why would they build something in a sleepy dying town like Eureka? It wasn’t until my sister Selene talked to a few construction workers that we discovered they were building a casino.
A casino up in the mountains, over two hours away from Denver. None of us could understand why they’d chosen here of all places. After a few months of work, the casino was done.
I took a picture of the town with the completed casino in the background to the right. The ten-story-structure sticks out like a sore thumb off in the distance.
Town+Casino
After the casino opened, they hired a few dozen members of the town, offering high paying jobs to work as dealers or cleaning staff. I was already employed as a firefighter, but my sister Selene got a job as a blackjack dealer. She’s a widow with two young kids, so the paycheck was a real lifesaver.
Still, something about the situation seemed too good to be true. The jobs over there paid far too well, and the management was far too accommodating. The fire station where I work is located high on a hill overlooking the town, so I began watching the casino from a distance each day.
I had initially thought that the casino was located in a terrible location, but I was apparently wrong. True, Eureka was hours from any major city, but despite that, a bus full of people arrived every morning and left every evening.
One night I was over at my parent’s house and had dinner with Selene and her kids. I asked her about her experience as a dealer.
“It’s Ok,” she said. “Just a little boring I guess.”
“Boring?” I asked. “I’m surprised you don’t have your hands full.”
“Why’s that?” she asked. “It’s like you said, Eureka’s too small. I never have people playing cards. The casino is almost always completely empty.”
I wasn’t sure what to make of that. If the place was always empty, what happened to the people who I’d seen arriving on buses? “I’ve been keeping an eye on the building,” I said. “A bus full of people typically arrives around 9 AM every day.”
“Really?” she asked, looking confused. “If that’s true, I’ve never seen them.
“I can see it from the fire station,” I said. “If you head out for a smoke break at 9 AM, you’ll probably see them arriving.”
“Interesting,” she said. “I’ll do that. If they’re being processed for their organs or something, I’ll let you know.” She laughed.
“Har har,” I said sarcastically.
The next night she sent me a text calling me over. When I arrived, she was nearly breathless with excitement.
“Orin, You were right,” she said. “A big group of people did arrive, but they didn’t walk into my part of the casino. Instead, they all walked into an elevator at the back of the building. I’m not sure where that goes.” She looked thoughtful. “It was weird. They looked… How can I say it? Desperate? Something about the whole situation was very off. I’m gonna check out the elevator tomorrow.”
I told her to be careful, though, to be honest, I was excited to hear about what she discovered. When I visited my parent’s house the next night, I found her two kids there alone. They told me that Selene had never returned from work.
I called all her friends, then all our neighbors, but no one had seen her since she left for work that morning. Our conversations regarding the casino flooded my mind, then a plan began to form.
Early the next morning I walked across town in my nicest pair of jeans and a button-up shirt. I pushed through the door to the casino and saw that Selene wasn’t lying. The place was all but deserted. Three dozen slot machines crowded the walls surrounding a few tables interspersed throughout the floor of the casino. The only players in the whole building were Bob and Donald, two locals.
I walked up to a nearby table where Bridget, a girl I’d gone to high school with, was shuffling cards. She broke into a grin when she saw me. “Hey Orin, you here for a few rounds of blackjack?”
“I wish,” I said. “No, I’m here to ask about Selene. She never made it home last night.”
Bridget’s expression darkened. “Really? Have you asked around?”
“I already called around. Have you seen her?”
She shook her head. “No, our schedules rarely line up. I’ll be sure to let you know if I--” Her eyes focused on something behind me, and she cut herself off.
I turned around to see the casino’s pit boss watching us both. He was a tall thin man in an impeccably clean black suit. When I turned back towards Bridget, she was looking down at the table and shuffling cards absent-mindedly.
“Well, if you hear anything, let me know,” I said.
She nodded, so I turned around and headed for the pit boss. I stuck out my hand. The temperature of his hand was so hot that I had to pull my hand away after a few seconds.
“Have… have you seen my sister Selene?” I asked. “She hasn’t been seen since her shift here yesterday.”
He smiled. “Sir, this floor is for players. You’re more than welcome to head to the tellers for chips, but barring that I’m afraid I’ll have to ask you to leave.”
I stared at him for a long second before stalking towards the door. When I looked back, he was talking with Bridget.
I checked my watch. 8:55 AM, just as I’d planned. I walked around the back of the building and waited as the morning bus pulled around the building. I waited for the telltale hiss of the opening doors and the sound of people descending before I rounded the corner and joined the crowd. None of them paid any particular attention to me as I walked with them into the casino.
The crowd walked through a side door down a hallway to an elevator. Small groups of people entered the elevator as the rest of us waited for our turn. I shot a glance at the casino patrons, surprised at their diversity. There seemed to be people from all different countries and ethnicities. I heard one speaking Japanese and another speaking what sounded like an African language.
My turn came along with a few other patrons in the elevator. A sickly woman hobbled into the elevator beside me carrying an IV that was still connected to one of her veins. We piled in and rode up to the top.
The elevator rose for a few long seconds. I wasn’t sure what I would find, but I steeled myself for something horrible. The elevator’s speaker let out a TING, then the doors opened.
We all walked out onto what looked like a standard casino. Another few dozen slot machines ringed the walls, but on this floor, they were almost all occupied by customers. I took in the scene, confused at why they’d have a ground floor that was almost completely empty when this place was almost--
Selene was dealing cards at a nearby table.
I jogged over and sat down at an open seat. None of the players around me paid me much attention.
“Selene!” I said. “Are you OK? Did you spend the night here last night?”
Her eyes were glassy and confused. She looked up at me with a dumb expression and didn’t respond to my question.
“Selene?” I asked.
“What’s your bet?” she asked me. “This table is for blackjack players only.”
“I…” I trailed off, looking at the players around me. None of them were betting with chips of any kind. “What’s the minimum bet?” I asked.
“Three years,” she responded.
“Three years then,” I said, not knowing what that referred to.
Selene nodded, then began dealing cards. I shot a look down at my hand. King and a 9. Selene dealt out cards for herself, showing a 9. I stood, then leaned forward again. “Should I call the police? Are you--”
“Congratulations,” she said tonelessly.
An almost impossibly warm hand grabbed my shoulder. I spun to see the pit boss I’d spoken to earlier. He gave an impressed smile. “Orin, was it? I’m impressed, truly. Would you mind if I had a word with you?”
I shot a look back at Selene who was dealing the next round of cards. Then I got to my feet, balling my hands into fists. “What did you do to her?”
The pit boss clasped his hands behind his back. “Nothing more, and nothing less than what I’m going to do to you. That is, offer you the chance to play.”
“What the hell is that supposed to mean?”
The pit boss nodded his head towards a nearby slot machine. A woman in a wheelchair pulled a lever and watched the flashing numbers spin. They exploded in a cacophony of sirens and flashing lights. “WINNER WINNER WINNER!” The machine screeched.
The woman in the wheelchair put her feet on the ground and stood up on a pair of wobbly legs that had clearly never been used before.
“As in any other casino,” the pit boss said, “you must wager for the chance to win.”
“She... won the use of her legs?” I asked, feeling light-headed. “Wait,” I said. “I played blackjack just now. ‘Three years,’ Selene told me. What does ‘three years’ mean?” I asked.
“Three years of life, of course. Did you win?”
My mouth felt dry. “I-- Yes, I won.”
He smiled warmly. “Congratulations. I hope you enjoy them. I can tell you from personal experience that watching the decades pass is a bore. Give it some time and you’ll be back to spend them.”
I watched the pit boss’s face. He couldn’t have been more than a few years older than me, and I was in my early thirties. I looked around at the casino. No one was playing with chips of any kind. “So what?” I asked. “I won years of life. That woman won the use of her legs. What else can a person win here?”
“Oh, almost anything. They can win almost anything you can imagine.”
A cold feeling settled in my stomach. “And what do they wager?”
His eyes flashed with greed. “Almost anything. They can wager almost anything you can possibly imagine. Anything equal in value to the item they want in return.” He nodded towards a nearby roulette table.
A man stood by the table, cradling his hands. “Another finger,” he called out. He only had three fingers remaining on his left hand. As I watched, the ball came to a stop, and another finger disappeared from his left hand.
The pit boss extended his hands. “Feel free to try any of our games. Bet and win whatever you’d like.” He reached out and snatched my hand. A feeling of intense warmth passed up my arm to my chest. “There,” he said. “I’ve even given you some house money to get you started. An extra decade of life, on me.”
I ripped my hand away, staring at him in horror. Then I looked back at Selene. Something clicked in my mind. “You offered her the chance to play. What did she want?” I asked.
“Her husband,” the pit boss said. “Quite the sad story. He died two years ago. She wanted him brought back to her.”
“What did she wager?” I asked.
“She wanted the chance to win a soul, the most valuable object in existence. I’m sure you can imagine what she needed to wager for the chance to win it. What she wagered is unimportant. The important question is: What do you want, Orin?”
I stared at Selene with a flat expression. “I’m sure you can imagine.”
His eyes flashed with greed again. “How wonderful. The casino could always make use of another dealer. Feel free to make your wager at any one of our games; I’ll be eagerly awaiting the results of your night. Oh, and do take advantage of our waitresses. We always supply food and drink for ‘high rollers’.” He walked away.
I spent the next few hours trying to decide which game to play. I was going to be wagering my soul, so I wanted the highest chance possible. Slots and roulette were out. I’d done some reading online about counting cards, so I figured that blackjack gave me the best odds.
I walked up to Selene’s table and sat down. “Bet?” she asked with that same toneless voice. “Three years,” I said.
I spent the next hour or so doing my best to remember how to count cards. I knew that low cards added one to my count and high cards decreased it by one, but the casino used three decks. I had read something about how that was supposed to change my calculation, but I couldn’t quite remember how.
Every time I won a hand, I cursed myself for not putting everything on the line. Every time I lost, I breathed a prayer of thanks that I’d waited. And all the while, I kept track of the count.
I had lost fifteen years of life when the count finally reached +5.
“Bet?” Selene asked.
“I wager my soul so you can be free,” I said.
The table around me fell silent. Selene’s eyes flickered, but she showed no other emotion as she dealt the cards. I watched my first card, punching the air in excitement when I saw a Jack. My excitement turned to ash when my second card was a four. Fourteen.
I looked at her hand. One card was facedown, but the faceup card was a King. I swore loudly, staring down at my hands.
“Hit?” she asked. The entire table was silently watching me.
“Hit,” I said, not looking down. The table erupted in cheers. I looked down to see a 7 atop my two other cards. 21. Blackjack.
I looked at Selene who flipped over her facedown card to reveal a 9. 19. I won.
The glassy look left her eyes immediately. She looked around in surprise, then her eyes locked on mine. “Orin?” she asked, then almost immediately began to cry. The entire casino broke out in cheers.
I grabbed her hand and headed for the elevator. The doors had begun to close when the pit boss reached out with a hand to stop them.
“Congratulations,” he said, beaming. He seemed to be honestly excited.
“Shouldn’t you be upset?” I asked.
“Not at all. Casinos love it when we have big winners. It inspires the other players to make larger bets. I imagine I’ll gain two or three dealers before the night is through from your performance.”
“Great,” I said flatly. “Now let us go.”
“Not yet,” he said. “You didn’t just win, Orin. You got a blackjack. And blackjack pays out 1.5 times your bet. You won your sister’s soul and more.”
I stared, not sure what to say. “What are you saying? I won half a soul extra?”
The pit boss grinned wildly. “Just remember what I said. You’ll find living for decades and decades to be a boring experience. After a few centuries, you’ll be back to gamble that half a soul away. Congratulations!”
He removed his hand, and the elevator doors slammed shut.
I helped Selene back to her house. Her children were relieved. I watched them cry, then moved into the kitchen to start making dinner.
It’s been a few days since that experience. The casino is still out there, and buses full of people still arrive. I… I cut my hand pretty bad a few days later. When I checked it an hour later, it had already healed, no scar or anything. I’m not sure exactly what I won at that casino, but there’s no way I’m ever going back.
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JoJo's Bizarre OC Tournament #5: Round 2 Match 8 - Arpeggi and Agnes Versus Glitch and William

The results are in for Match 6. The winner is…
Player Team, with a score of 83 to Ernie Ford’s 62!
Category Winner Point Totals Comments
Popularity Players 25-5
Quality TIE 24-24 Reasoning
JoJolity Players 24-23 Reasoning
Conduct TEAM 10-10
...“You know what I'm here for!” Effie’s words rang out as Ernie watched on at the unexpected turn of events.
“The funny thing is I really don’t know.” Ernie stood there and took in the scene. Was this the first time he had seen this type of outburst in the District? Ernie tried to recall, but now wasn’t really the time to reminisce on bad memories.
Something was afoot. Something about Ugo threatening them that was for sure. But if Ugo wanted somebody to fight him this would never be his plan of attack. “Would you care to enlighten me then, I wouldn’t mind this either way!” Ernie shouted back, his tone was neutral, the tension of the situation only increased, but he didn’t see a need to fight back even now.
“They sent us here, because they wanted us to steal your notebook!” Ernie heard the voice of Jenny behind a tree.
Things started to make sense to Ernie, the hiding, why it wasn’t Odin’s people doing this, and that outburst. “And what do you two intend to do?” Ernie moved his backpack from his back to carrying it on one arm.
“Well if you help us, you could send them a fake notebook! It’s not like we like those fuckers anyways!” Jenny replied beyond the trees.
Well that wasn’t so difficult was it, it only took one or maybe both of their ire to get to this arrangement. Ernie weighed this against the prospect that they were lying to him, but if it came down to it it would just be either a fight now or a fight later. “Alright I’ll help you! I’ll be in my cabin manuscripting! You two wait outside, this will take less than an hour!” Ernie shouted back over as he started to walk back to his cabin.
“Your funeral..wait what?!” Effie flipped as Jenny clapped an arm on her, “We did it, we can get out of this shitty situation.”
Effie looked around, The Murder receded back into herself. “Did that really just happen?” She held out the hope that it really would be that easy, she wanted to believe it but she felt a slight pang of confusion, guilt maybe?
Jenny continued on, “We just have to make sure that he does his end of the deal and we’ll be out of here in no time.” Jenny looked at Effie’s face as she noticed the change in expression, “You okay there? You let out a bunch just now and if you wanted to talk about it.”
“No I’m ok, come on we have to still keep an eye on him.” Effie brushed Jenny’s arm off and made her way closer into the clearing with Jenny following.
Well, that was somewhat anticlimactic. If you were hoping for a match with some more carnage in it, how about checking out a race out of a monster-filled urn and voting on it?
Scenario:
Sound’s Garden Eastern Strip - Heartache Casino VIP Room
“So kind of you all to come again,” a man dressed garishly in gold spoke to a roomful of wealthy highrollers, a lounge area with a wall taken up by a screen large enough to make the place double as something of a particularly cozy home theater, a setup which had typically been reserved for two things: watching games organized by Heartache Casino’s owner on the closed-circuits of buildings he owned, and being rented out for private parties and banquets.
“This is pretty unconventional,” a dark-haired sniper remarked between drinks, staring at the screen as it showed, largely, several shots of a building in Downtown Los Fortuna, which seemed to have rapidly grown occupied by a small group of Stand Users, some of whom familiar to the district’s regulars after some close shaves in the subways both occupied, “but it’s brilliant… Just needed to get your tech guy to get cameras in there, now you have a huge show for free.”
“Should you be drinking, Seido?” The gold-clad owner asked, raising an eyebrow, “I mean, if something comes up…”
“If something comes up, I’m off-duty, I’m just a guest right now, and I can shoot well enough sloshed to get myself out of a bind. If you wanted me as security, you should’ve hired me for that… Though really, I’d have rather been down there raising some hell if I was gonna shoot things.”
Tigran sighed, finding that fair enough, he supposed… He wasn’t going to hire this man when he was buzzed, and he wouldn’t do guard detail for free either. Apparently, the man literally came to the city walking out of a bar into the flag unveiling, so he shouldn’t have been surprised.
Still, though, even with moods high here, nobody seeming to mind the way anonymous characters like Oh No and Conqueror Worm mingled among them. Sure, they were kind of a low-priority target right now, with protests in the Business district, the hell-on-earth about to be unleashed Downtown keeping their worst nightmares busy, and the usual BS in places like the Waterfront and Industrial, but the man once noted for his supremely smarmy overconfidence had been feeling more anxious lately, probably because the Entertainment District’s criminal underground had taken some losses recently.
Things were riding high with several successful games, and the arrival of Conqueror Worm, revitalizing everything that they had thought they’d known and opening up whole new possibilities of what games might be possible to organize from a place of safety, all while not asking for a penny of payment. He was a weird guy, but a valuable asset, and all that was understood to be asked in return was that they pretend not to know exactly who it was underneath that big fleshy suit.
And then, the next time they had an in-person event, a bunch of them died in a fire, and on the way to… Well, who knew why he was there, but something happened that got a formerly active manager and ‘game’ organizer murdered blocks away from the site of the flames. Was it a sign, then, that the old ways really were dying, that they needed to change with the times or lose this subculture of theirs entirely?
Maybe, and maybe some would leave it like that, but Tigran “Golden” Sins knew another source of common ground with every one of their games to go wrong, to go awry, to risk the future and safety of all that they were, all that they had. Everything (besides that time he got punched in the face) that had gone wrong, from Thutmose leaving them, to events that were supposed to be disastrous bloodbaths going well for the ‘players’ and ruining bets, could trace back somewhere.
And she was sitting there looking very disinterested, nursing a sparkling juice in a very expensive evening dress and earrings, recently bought by the only man in the world he believed to be above himself.
“Having a good time, Metra?” Fox asked the star known to much of the city as TD/MD, smiling smoothly and paying her more attention than the event itself, where he was significantly more public than before. He’d spent how many thousands on her in a few days?
“Sure, yeah,” she answered, with a clear disinterest and foul mood.
“I understand if you’re not… we’re all sorry to have lost Thutmose. Most likely by where he was, whoever killed him would have done the same to us had he not interfered. So he would want you to have a good time, right?”
“Alright, everyone, last calls!” Conqueror Worm called out, many eyes looking all over. After getting back from camera work, he’d volunteered to handle bets, on account of his utter disinterest in profiting from his work there. Damn shame, honestly; Tigran loved that weird golden Stand-hurting sword he’d always been swinging around, and something belonging to a regional founder would be a hell of a get to wear around. “We know all the key players in that little downtown scuffle, so let’s hear it! Who’s biting it? Who’s comin’ out? Who’s gonna have the highest bodycount? Is anyone even gonna get IN?”
That Oh No guy, from the Institute, spoke up through that voice changer he almost always had on in his coverings. “I think that… Three people will manage to find their way inside. Nobody on this betting board.”
“Ooh, bold words from our boldest regular!” Worm leaned in close, asking, “how much’re you puttin’ on that?”
“Nothing,” No responded, “I just want to see what comes of it… I’m almost disappointed you needed to ask.”
Peas in a pod, those two. Tigran sighed, figuring he might need to drink through these proceedings, only to glance at Metra, suddenly, seeming to smirk, ears twitching as if that special pitch of hers had picked something up. “What? What’s so fun now, that-”
The heavily reinforced, hidden doorway to the VIP room burst open, bisecting the hollow yet burly door guard as sand and rocks spilled out of its hollow crevasse, the only herald within seconds of a quintet of Stand Users barreling in, led by a trio on two motorbikes as two others, curious but energetic, followed.
“All that you’ve done ends here, Fox!”
Around the same time, Heartache Casino Public Floors
“Uh… Glitch? I think… it might be good if we… go?” William Eyelash was not liking it here very much. His hyperactive coworker and teammate had practically dragged him here after what was otherwise a simple delivery performed in place of Zebra, who had been busy enough delivering food to the other side of the city. William was the one supposed to carry it out, but Glitch had practically jumped at the opportunity to do so.
Glitch herself, meanwhile, seemed to be very content eating some fries which she (very regrettably) had to actually buy instead of simply snatching it away from a poor, unaware bystander, and had already ordered another plate because they were just that good. Security was too tight, somewhat on edge - the moment she got close to someone or something, they immediately turned their attention to her. Still, she didn’t want to deprive herself of one of the many pleasures of life like that, so she didn’t mind paying too much. “Mmrgh..? Why sho?”
“W- well… you know… uh...” William wasn’t sure how to say it - he was scared enough of Glitch’s erratic mannerisms most days, and that was while he tried to steer clear of her. Were he to directly oppose her, he’d have no way of knowing what she’d do! On top of that, he couldn’t help but notice that she seemed slightly… on edge. She was usually hyperactive, but she seemed to be even more eager to jump from one thing to another recently, and to ignore anything that even slightly stressed her out. Considering everything that happened to the staff at the Elephant Bones recently, it made sense for her to be stressed, even if she didn’t really show it usually. “... um, you know the rumors about this place… right? ”
Glitch turned to look at William, tilting her head “Hm? What rumors?”. “Uh... well… about the ED… and the fighting rings… I saw an article about it on the Hermod, and… i- it could be dangerous to be here for too long...” hearing William say that, Glitch seemed to recede for a bit, thinking to herself. “Mmm... well, it hasn’t been a problem yet! Right? Besides, the other chips haven’t arrived yet!” Glitch didn’t want to think much about it - so long as these fighting rings were away from her, she could just ignore them and go on with her life, but if it really was here, then maybe it would be good to avoid this place… but the fries were so good... Glitch took another look at the table she was sitting at and at the plate of fries she’d ordered. She grabbed a handful and ate them. “Mmm… after the second order of chips comes! Then we leave! But only after then!”
“Alright...” William didn’t like this very much, and he couldn’t help but shoot nervous glances around as Glitch finished up. Just about every staff member here was on edge and uncomfortable - he knew how to notice these things, and it would make sense if this place really was connected to the underground. Ugh… Why did he come along with Glitch? He’d just have to hope that the second order would come soon, and then they’d be able leave just as quickly as they came in.
Naturally, as if fate itself had conspired to screw him over, he couldn’t help but pick up on ‘something’. Guards around the floor peered nervously into their phones, and most of them began rushing towards the stairwell. Glitch had noticed as well, her ears picking up on the nervous murmurings of the guards and their hasty footsteps.
“Uhh… G- Glitch, something’s happening, we should-” “Pleh! Can’t you wait just a second! The chips aren’t here yet! This isn’t-”
Before Glitch could finish her sentence, something flew into the room - the body of a security officer, clearly tossed away by some stand, flew from the entrance to the second floor, and landed right in the middle of a group of more security officers.
“Oh god oh god it’s happening oh no oh no oh no oh-” William was, as expected, positively freaking out by now. Meanwhile, Glitch was keeping her ears peeled out, having picked up on something… interesting. The voice of two people she vaguely recognized from “Taste of Fortuna” a month or so back.
“Hey! That’s Agnes! And that other chef whose food is good! Even better than the chips!! What are they doing here, fighting?!”
Soon enough, Agnes and Arpeggi really did pop into the room, their stands summoned as they staved off some guards with them. Much to William’s chagrin, Glitch grabbed onto his hand and summoned [Vida Loca], before hopping onto it, the massive feline hoisting him onto it as well, before running right towards the source of the commotion…
And right into the footpath of a terrifying giant who seemed to suddenly fall from the ceiling, several eyes along its body looking to them as its head rotated 180 degrees. “Well, wouldn’t you like to know?”
Several minutes earlier, A Few Stories Lower - Sound’s Garden Abandoned Subway
“Are you sure this is the place? Seems pretty fucking trashy to me, honestly…”
“That’s what makes it a secret passage, Agnes… They’re not exactly rolling out the red carpet to tell you how to get there.”
“Ugh, Astronomia wasn’t built for this shit. You’re paying if something gets stuck somewhere.”
“You’ve crashed it how many times this month alone?”
Arpeggi Osso Buco sat in the sidecar of a motorbike driven by one Ananas “Agnes” Bayley, through the abandoned subways of the Eastern strip. He’d meant to take this trip alone, like he had before, but of course, this fucking guy had to be the first on the team to learn that he was a Stand User, an active vigilante, and not only in part responsible for a certain cult’s influence plummeting to nothing in Los Fortuna, but had dedicated himself to making an enemy of the blight of the Entertainment District.
“Fuck it, I’m down.”
“You’re… What?”
“I’m down. Fuck those guys. I don’t even need to ask any more questions, they’re an absolute disgrace to be shown up by a real villain, and if you’re hunting their boss down, I’m with you.”
“You are the last person I would want watching my back in a-”
“Or I can tell Gabanna what you’re doing so soon after getting SHOT last time you tried your luck with these guys.”
“…bastard. Okay, just don’t get in the way.”
Minus a near-scare with RCR’s nightmarish train nearly running them down without noticing, and Arpeggi having to explain at some point that it was both private information from a set of informants and news now publicly printed in multiple sources about the higher-ups of this organization, it had mostly gone smoothly since then.
As they drove closer to the underside of Heartache, Arpeggi signaled for Agnes to stop, noting a destroyed set of hollowed-out mannequins of sorts, smoking and smelling like gunpowder.
“Hell is that?” Agnes asked, looking down, but Arpeggi, in turn, didn’t quite seem surprised. Before he could explain, however, another, distorted voice cut through.
“You’re late.”
The revving of a second motorcycle, a sport bike, had quietly synced with Astronomia, and the pair looked up to see a figure clad in orange and black, winglike scarf drooping upside-down, its rider atop the ceiling of the tunnel.
“You.” Agnes spoke with contempt, despite having never seen the Black Angel in person before, only for them and their bike to drop down right in front of them, flipping in midair to land gracefully.
“You didn’t tell me you were bringing a friend, let alone… Him.” The Angel sounded dubious about Agnes’ presence, adding, “since you took time picking him up, I’ve had to start picking off these weird… hollow doll-guards myself. They almost noticed me in time to signal the boss. I really don’t have the time for this today.”
“Sorry about that, he insisted,” Arpeggi wrote off, not wanting to explain the somewhat unsurprising (“ran into one another while doing their vigilante rounds, got to talking about the ED mainly”) story how he and the Angel met, “and he’s here right now… Say what you like about him, you saw that Being So Normal, I assume. He’ll be an asset.”
“I’ll kick your ass-et,” Agnes grumbled, “fighting them alone my ass. Ugh, teaming up with masked hero types like this… Pisses me off. We should be kicking each other’s asses, Angel.”
“Deal with it,” the Angel wrote off, before adding, “our contacts in there… They said basically everyone we might have any reason to get is on that floor with them, watching Downtown.”
“Right, some madman is acting out there,” Arpeggi noted, folding his arms and looking Westward, “I take it that’s why you’re in a hurry? You want to deal with them quickly and head out there next?”
“You got it,” they answered, “and admittedly, there’s a reason I had to come here first… Something I’m going to prioritize the highest, and if we take too long, I’ll have to leave having only done that.”
“You’ve got a grudge, is that it?” Agnes asked, “you wanna punt some fucker before moving on?”
“That’s… not why I’m targeting him,” The Angel noted, before adding, “that sword the Conqueror Worm always has on him… The ‘Sword of Sir Aurel…’ The future of the city might depend on me getting that Downtown. The contacts say he still has it with him, just like on that stream.”
“You’re pissing me off, pretending you don’t care about just one-upping that bastard,” Agnes chided, adding, “act like you’re ‘heroes of justice’ all you want… I’m doing this because these guys piss me the hell off, and seeing them fall will make me laugh. Do all of us a favor, cut the bullshit, and admit you’re gonna enjoy this, yeah?”
The others didn’t say too much more of note, then, beyond the Angel briefly examining Astronomia, putting something all over it that they claimed would ‘make it maneuver better,’ which Arpeggi had to calm Agnes into accepting, especially considering it meant they could ride up stairs with relative ease.
“Alright, from this secret passage, it’s a straight shot up a few flights of stairs to the VIP room… We should be able to burst it down without ever disrupting all the public patrons and fortifications up on 1F. Hold on tight, you got that?”
The motorbikes revved, then, and the Angel’s led Agnes in seeming to leap into the air, driving up and along the walls of the stairwell, before a long-haired figure emerged from the Angel, aiming something at a metal reinforced door, firing into it a few times, and it shifted in place as Pork Soda rushed towards it, placing a tab on the material before ripping it away, liquid metal blasting in the opposite direction the door would fly and swing at rapid speed, swinging like a deadly projectile and cutting more powerful puppet guards away as the three burst in.
Arpeggi called out, “All that you’ve done ends here, Fox!”
Not long after Arpeggi called that out, Fox himself, of course, was quick to stand, as were a few bold-looking members of the crowd, hurrying towards the fighters with his own accompanying doll-guard, small enough to hold in two hands and, with his large frame, swing like a hammer-thrower, lobbing up towards them and bursting open into a mess of pointed rocks as he drew closer, repelling Arpeggi’s immediate attempts to approach.
The swinging door, embedded with odd screws and still gushing metal soda, began to fly towards him, only for the sound of a rifle to fill the room, a single warping bullet putting out every one of the odd screws and careening it to strike Arpeggi back, sending him flying down the stairwell before either the Angel or Agnes could react.
Seido, sitting at his edge of the bar, finished downing his drink, holding his weapon in one hand and grinning a bit, slurring slightly, “thas’ goin’ on your tab, boss…”
Fox smirked, then, rocks and sand swirling around him and beating back the remaining attackers’ efforts to burst forward. “Let’s not fight up here, gentlemen… I’ve set this place up nice for a very special guest. Take it downstairs. Seido, consider yourself on the clock now.”
Worm, then, seemed to realize the Angel was staring at his movements, diving down into the floor below to the terror of the 1F patrons, and the rider hurriedly cut away from the clash, leaving Agnes to fend for himself against the rocky onslaught of Fox, all while Oh No watched and Seido, quickly, lined up another shot. Even on this upgraded bike, he knew the only response to make there. “Fffuck this!”
Pork Soda reached for Astronomia, a tab appearing on its wheel which, as the Stand weathered rocky blows, it pulled, blasting Agnes back into the stairwell, where he hit the wall with an, “oof!” before hopping off of his ride, which crashed and plummeted down as he abandoned it to slide down the railing, doing a cool combat roll to cover Arpeggi and the Angel as they rolled into the first floor, clearly concerned about what Conqueror Worm being there would mean for the patrons. Fox and others were shortly behind, with a certain exception.
Though nobody could hear it, by Metra Doria’s choice, as soon as Seido had spoken that aloud, she’d kicked up the chair she’d been sulking in all ‘party’ long, a pair of headphones appearing along her neck as a blast of sonic energy kicked it directly into the head of the hitman. Her heart skipped a beat, then, and she muttered under her breath, “shit, that actually worked… I got lucky, huh?”
“Entirely,” Oh No agreed, stepping forth himself and stretching, producing a very large, intimidating revolver from his cloak and beginning, idly, to load it, “but don’t treat that as a failing, TD/MD… You saw a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and you had the instincts to take it.” No closed the chamber, starting leisurely towards the stairs after the rest. “This is getting tiresome, isn’t it? You see it too, how dull this has gotten… What potential they’re wasting here. What do you say we speed along what’s been a long, long time coming?”
“Well, wouldn’t you like to know?”
A golden, shining sword appeared out of the giant’s gross hand, and his presence alone made Glitch want to wretch, the smell of the Conqueror Worm fell, and vibes even more rancid.
“We got two more troublemakers here, eh?” Worm asked her and William with an amused tone, “Hell just broke loose here, and you’re tryin’ to run headlong into it! I like that! I like that drive! So what do ya say? Attacka them!”
Glitch didn’t know this guy, but something about his gleeful nature, the way that William murmured to himself in alarm when he spoke those distorted words, made her hairs stand on end, made her want to hiss and immediately turn her attention to him, and it seemed, then, that Worm could sense this.
“Another one who ain’t a fan, huh?” He shook his head. “Disappointing, but typical.”
At that, he ducked into the floor, before attempting to burst out from underneath and drive his blade up into Vida Loca, barely being scraped before hopping away from the rising attack and meeting it with a sharp, harsh claw, beating back his raw strength with her Stand’s own.
“I don’t know who you are, but you’re really not the kind of bad news that’s any fun!” Glitch called out from atop her mount, pulling off in time to avoid the ambush of a hollowed-out guard and note two others bothering William.
“That guy looks underage… He ain’t allowed to be on a casino floor without ID!” Worm declared with amusement, fully expecting what came next as several of the doll-guards attempted to strong-arm him.
“G-get away… Get away from me!” William was freaking out, then, and fairly fearing for his life, allowed Ocean Eyes to manifest, swinging and spraying acid all around, which bounced uselessly off of Worm’s hide, didn’t so much as drop near Glitch or Vida Loca, and melted away the threats in an instant.
The casino floor was pandemonium then, several high rollers, some random patrons, and of course, every named member fighting, Stands flying. Arpeggi expertly caught rocks tossed by Fox, only for him to still control them even as they were made to burn by NEXT LEVEL 2, though this eroded away much of the sands of his barrier, backed up by Agnes as he very competently kept a rocky barrier up regardless, Metra standing close by, shifting her eyes. The Black Angel tried to drive headlong into Worm, continuing his mess of a situation, while Glitch, mostly, managed to sneak off on her own, trying to find a way to support William and calm him out of whatever this was.
“Don’t move,” a modulated voice behind her said, and she heard something click behind her.
“Mrr?” She turned, then, facing the barrel of Oh No’s revolver head-on.
“This might be a bit loud… But it’s about time this ended.”
Before Glitch could react, No had pulled the trigger twice. Neither shot so much as grazed her, but seemed to hit tables, cameras, walls, ricocheting about in apparent chaos, before finally…
“I… What did…” Blood ran down the organizational ringleader’s outfit, bleeding both from a massive wound to the back of his knee and opening a massive hole in his shoulder, as the rocks he had been flinging around dropped like… Rocks.
Tigran’s voice was the next thing to ring out through the casino, now mostly abandoned bar the combatants.
“TOBY!!!”
Fox hadn’t even heard the shots fired, thanks to Metra, let alone noticed their angles; after all, the only one he knew of who could make a shot like that was knocked out and drunk upstairs, not to mention loyal to Tigran’s paychecks.
No twirled his gun around, holstering it and patting the bewildered Glitch on the shoulder. “Thanks for holding still… Didn’t want to hit you and ruin it all, after all. Hmmhmmhmahaha!"
“You… You motherfuckers!” Tigran wanted to cry then, especially as the others drew closer, seeing everyone who had fought against an ally of his here as little more than an enemy. Still, though, facing them off, he had to calm himself.
“Stand down,” Arpeggi demanded, “you’re outnumbered, completely.”
Tigran, rather than giving up, began to speak again. “You know, as the owner of this casino, I know the power of ‘games’. You see, if you call it a ‘gamble’, that sounds so… negative, no? So you call it nothing more than a simple ‘game’. That’s what draws people in. Getting people to play ‘roulette’ is harder, but if you call it a ‘roulette game’ and mask it correctly, it’s so, so, easy… However, the moment the ball is launched, it doesn’t matter, does it? No difference between a ‘gamble’ and a ‘game’... the ‘contract’ is the same - you abandon your money for ‘entertainment’ and for a slim ‘hope’ that you’ll succeed this time and make bank… It’s all thanks to these ‘games’... All of you lot, don’t you think so? Aren’t ‘games’ great? Hell, I’ve got an idea for one we can play right now…”
“Wh- what the hell are you talking about!” Arpeggi shouted out in anger. “I’m not putting up with this shit! You want a ‘game’?! Sure, fine! Here, how about this one - I go up to you, and have fun beating the shit out of you!” rushing towards Tigran, Arpeggi readied a punch and swung towards him - only for his fist to stop in midair, hitting against some kind of invisible barrier. He reeled back from the impact, stumbling backwards, feeling… weak. A look behind him revealed that Agnes, Glitch, William, and even Metra, the Angel, and No seemed to be feeling the same, struggling to remain upright.
“Y- you ‘agreed’... heh…” Tigran’s previously panicked expression quickly faded, replaced by a wide grin. “You agreed to it! You agreed to the ‘game’!” By now, Tigran broke out into uproarious laughter. “Always! They always fall for it, tempted by ‘games’! You… you idiot! I put the answer right in front of you, and you still missed it! ‘Games’, by their very nature, are tricks! Illusions! And my [The Grid] has the power to facilitate that! By agreeing to the game, my [The Grid] forces you to participate! There’s no escape now - you’re trapped in this ‘game’ of mine!”
As he realized he had screwed them all right at the last moment, Arpeggi’s vision began fading, and he fell onto the ground with a thud, blacking out.
???, an hour later, Heartache Casino VIP room
“Alright! Seems like our contestants for the first impromptu match of the day are waking up!”
“Plrrr..?” Out of nowhere, Glitch found herself standing straight, awake, somewhere unfamiliar. She tried to listen to see what was going on, only hearing the groans of William, Agnes, and Arpeggi, indicating that they were in a similar position to her. Of course, there was also that voice - she was… a ‘contestant’. It wasn’t hard to roughly figure out what exactly she was a ‘contestant’ of. She, and...
“...William!” Behind her was a whimpering noise, evidently William, and the sound of droplets of some kind of liquid splashing onto the ground, clearly [Ocean Eyes]’s acid. Ahead of her were Agnes and Arpeggi, talking between themselves about what the hell happened. Arpeggi sounded mad. Agnes… she wasn’t sure how he sounded. But she gathered enough from their conversation to understand that somehow, they were currently inside of a roulette wheel. Or rather, she, and everyone else, was shrunk, and placed into a roulette wheel.
“Now, this match is simple - a deathmatch to see who manages to survive! However, since we’re at the heartache casino… there’s an appropriate twist involved! See, our combatants for today are fighting on a roulette table, and meanwhile, our spectators for today are placing ‘bets’ to see which colors win out! Representing ‘red’, we’ve got our very own ‘Fox’! On black, meanwhile, we’ve got ‘Tigran Sins’, who set this match up!”
She summoned [Vida Loca] besides her, taking a look through the stand’s eyes and seeing the environment for herself. She was dwarfed by the room, trapped inside of this small roulette wheel. There was nowhere to run. William’s whimpers had escalated into sobbing, as [Ocean Eyes] hugged him from behind. Arpeggi and Agnes were arguing by now, shouting at each other. She took a deep breath.
“Now… I won’t keep you waiting any longer, since I just know everyone here’s excited to see what happens! So...”
First, Glitch got tossed into Los Fortuna and found a new home there, with the rest of the staff at the Elephant Bones. Then, they started getting into fights with other stand users - Shelldrake, Effie, Byte, William. She hadn’t been in one yet, but she knew very well the effects of them. Her friends had gotten hurt, some such as Father Blue even dying. Then the situation in the slums got worse, her home becoming less and less safe by the minute, her friends getting extorted and forced to work for ODIN, and now she and William were trapped here.
“Three… Two… One...”
She needed to get out. She needed to fight. She needed to win. She could overhear Agnes and Arpeggi bickering on the other side of the wheel, but knew that they were going to try and fight her and William as well. They had to. They’d been trapped by that man’s stand, and none of them knew what could be done against it, if anything.
[Vida Loca] stood behind her, a constant vibration coming out of it and creating a loud hissing noise that was soon mimicked by [Ocean Eyes], drowning out William’s sobs. She knew full well that, even if he was her friend, William was also a dangerous killer, meek though he might have acted. As hard as that whole situation was to grasp, she understood something else - that the more she stayed near [Ocean Eyes], working alongside it, the safer she was. She and William had to get out of this. And if they wanted to get out of this...
They would have to fight for their lives.
OPEN THE GAME!
(credit to magistelles for the image, both the censored and uncensored version!(CW: trypophobia))
Location: A roulette wheel in Heartache Casino, upon which players have been forcibly placed.
The map here is roughly similar to the image of the roulette wheel above. The outer brown layer represents the rim, the yellow layer being the wooden slopes down towards the center, the black layer being the numbers, the red layer being the pockets, the next layer being sloped wood up towards the center, and the center being a metal tower.
The map is 30 by 30 meters relative to the players, with the dotted tile being 5 by 5 meters.
The diamonds are the metal bumpers, about half a meter tall, and the blue circle is a weighted metal roulette ball which is a meter tall, both heights relative to the players.
The metal tower in the center is 8 meters tall relative to the players and the outside walls are 5 meters relative to the players. Players can not go past the rim of the roulette wheel.
Goal: RETIRE your opponents!
Additional Information:
There is an invisible barrier keeping the players and their Stands inside the roulette wheel. Everything else will pass through as normal, but the players and their attacks will be blocked by this barrier. The barrier is cylindrical around the entire roulette wheel.
The roulette system is currently automatic, 5 seconds after the ball falls into a pocket or stops moving entirely, it will start rolling again at top speed clockwise. The max speed of the ball is equivalent to B SPD and the ball is A DUR. You can expect it to make around 8 revolutions around the wheel before losing most of its speed if it is unimpeded by the players.
If the ball is destroyed or unable to roll, a new one will be thrown in from outside.
Team Combatant JoJolity
The Graveyard Shift William Eyelash “W-Well, I'll be going now...” You’re being forced to fight, and you don’t want anything to do with this! During the match, try to stay on the backlines as much as possible, assisting from there!
The Graveyard Shift Tiger “Glitch” Ricky "Nowadays, 30,000 yen is gone after you make one or two trips... So all that's left is to make more money, or go flat broke." You are being forced to fight here, and you hate it, so you might as well do something to cause the casino to lose money! Do whatever you can to constantly rig the roulette in favor of odds!
BADD GUYS Arpeggi Osso Buco "Does that alien not know what 'holding back' means?" You were tricked by that asshole, and now you’ve got to fight these two bystanders?! Fuck, this makes you irritated. Destroy as much of the area as possible over the course of your strategy!
BADD GUYS Ananas “Agnes” Bayley "I did say this seemed fun, but I wasn't talking about Cee-lo. I meant that it'd be fun taking your 30,000 yen from you." That girl over there is trying to rig the game, so play the agent of chaos and rig it towards the other end! Do whatever you can to constantly rig the roulette in favor of evens!
Link to the Official Player Spreadsheet
Link to Match Schedule
As always, if you would like to interact with the tournament community and be among the first to get updates for the tournament, please feel free to PM a member of our Judge staff for an invite to our Official Discord Server!
submitted by Dungeon_Dice to StardustCrusaders [link] [comments]

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submitted by freispiele to u/freispiele [link] [comments]

Back to Basics: Real Estate Investing

Hi All,
First of all, I’m a data scientist by profession but a history major by training. So I’ve tried to cite all relevant data points with a () tag. This allows us to separate debating the data vs. the analysis. I’m also a complete newbie to real estate investing. One of the main goals in fact of this post is to organize my thoughts so far and solicit feedback from more knowledgable individuals.
As part of a balanced portfolio, I've invested passively in real estate for several years (both public REITs and a small amount in a private platform). As my assets have grown and I'm entering the age to buy a primary residence, I've been trying to educate myself on the housing real estate market. After all, even if you don't own any investment properties the purchase of a home is the largest single financial transaction you'll likely ever make. In fact, if you look at the chart linked below (1, see Sources below) you'll see housing is the single largest asset for households with net worth below 1 million dollars, i.e. ~90% of Americans (2). In fact, even in 2010 (in the midst of the Great Financial Crisis): "The primary residence represented 62% of the median homeowner’s total assets and 42% of the median home owner’s wealth" (3). In fact, reading the Economist recently (obviously in my slippers) I was surprised to discover housing is the world's largest asset class. This HSBC report (avoiding the Economist paywall) cites housing as a $226 trillion (!) asset class at the end of 2016 (4) out of a total net worth in 2018 of ~$360 trillion according to Credit Suisse.
 
Even with my casual research, it's clear that real estate is divided into multiple segments including residential, commercial, industrial, farm land, etc. Even the subsector of residential is divided into single family, multi-family, commercial, mobile homes, etc. These segments are further divided across geographies with wildly different tax, capital, and regulatory regimes. So far I’ve limited my research to the US residential sector: single family homes, multifamily, and small commercial apartment buildings. Therefore moving forward when I say real estate I will limit the scope to the above US residential housing market, i.e. acquiring individual or personal portfolio of US housing properties.
 
More formally, the purpose of my analysis below is:
Note: I considered posting this in /realestateinvesting, but ultimately my goal is to evaluate real estate vs. other asset classes. Obviously some people will simply prefer real estate for a variety of reasons, but personally my goal is to achieve the greatest return for the least risk and work. I should stress that I love my career (data scientist) and have no intention of quitting, so the last point is particularly important.
 
Analysis
 
One thing that immediately strikes me as an investor accustomed to public securities, e.g. bonds / stocks, is how odd the real estate market (in particular housing) is in comparison. Having a margin account from a broker, i.e. getting leverage, is often a difficult process reserved for “advanced” investors. In residential real estate, it’s considered “conservative” for an individual to have leverage of 4-5 to 1 (FHA loans, for example, only require 3.5% down in some cases!) . What’s even crazier is that the loan is often issued at only 2-4% over the 10 year US treasury rate. For example today, April 26th, the 10 year treasure is 0.606% while NerdWallet has a rate of 3.3% for a prime credit score, single family home, primary residence 30 year loan.
 
Perhaps because real estate is the only avenue available for newer investors to take on large amounts leverage immediately, I've seen extreme and, in my opinion, irrational positions on the subject. Even a cursory glance at BiggerPockets, /realestateinvesting, etc. uncovers multiple posts along the lines of either "real estate investing is the best investment ever!" vs. "the real estate market is a massive bubble and will crash soon". I've summarized a few of the common tropes I've seen below with my analysis.
 
Real estate is a huge bubble, and is going to collapse any day!
As noted above, real estate / housing has numerous segments that are further divided across geographies with wildly different tax, capital, and regulatory regimes. Saying that "real estate" will crash is like saying the “food industry” will crash. What segment and where? US soybean growers? Fast Food? Argentinian ranchers? McDonalds in particular?
Limiting our discussion to US housing: the Case-Shiller national price index (7) shows that home prices dropped ~27% from peak to trough in the Great Financial Crisis over a period of almost 6 years (Mid 2006 to early 2012). The reason this was such a catastrophic event is that housing had never decreased nationally in a significant way before in the modern era (see Case Schiller home price index). Of course, it’s worth noting that housing had rarely increased rapidly against inflation before.
Let’s assume we had an equivalent event occur. The Jan 2020 index was at 212, so home prices would decrease by 27% to ~155 (mid 2008 levels). Crucially though, this price drop would be expected to play out for years! During that time vested interests (more on that later) would lobby governments extensively for support, foreign and US investors could form funds to take advantage of the situation, etc. As a reference point there is ~$1.5 trillion available in US private equity funds alone as of January 2020.
However, it is worth pointing out that this is at the national level. Local real estate markets, particularly those dependent on select industries or foreign investors, could easily see more dramatic price movements. The US census has a really cool chart (22) that shows the inflation adjusted (as of year 2000) median home values every decade by state from 1940 to 2000. We see that Minnesota home values actually dropped from $105,000 in 1980 to $94,500 in 1990, a fall of more than 10%.
 
Everyone needs a place to live, therefore housing can never go down
Everyone needs a place to eat, but restaurants and grocery stores are famously low margin businesses (5). Farms supply an even more basic need, but many go bankrupt (6). The question isn’t whether housing will go down or not, but whether it will return an attractive rate of return compared to alternative investments.
It’s also worth pointing out that for most “retail” US housing real estate investors, they are investing in a narrow geographic area. Migration and births/ deaths can play a huge role in the need for housing in a given area. Case in point, NYC may have actually begun losing population to migration in 2017 / 2018 (23). Even more interesting, NYC has experienced a substantial loss due to domestic migration which is almost balanced by foreign immigration / new births (24). If foreign immigration decreases in the post-COVID we would expect NYC’s population to decline more rapidly given current trends.
It is entirely possible for national housing prices to modestly increase while expensive coastal markets decline significantly, for example.
 
It's supply and demand. There's a nationwide housing shortage so prices can only go up!
This one has some factual basis. Freddie Mac put out a study in Feb 2020 (18) which indicated that there is a shortage of housing units between 2.5 - 3.3 million units. Some interesting notes about this study is that they consider the “missing” household formation and extrapolate interstate migration trends. As noted below, the US builds ~1.3 million housing units a year, so this reflects ~2 years of housing construction. It’s also worth noting the geographic variation, with “high growth” states like Massachusetts, California, Colorado, etc. seeing ~5% housing deficits vs. states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc. seeing housing surpluses of ~2-4%.
However, a Zillow analysis on our aging population (11) points to a slightly different conclusion. Based on their analysis, an additional ~190,000 home will be released by seniors between 2017-2027 compared to 2007-2017. That number increases by another 250,000 homes annually between 2027-2037. Combined, this is about ~50% of the average annual homes constructed in the US between 2000-2009 at ~900,000.
Given these slightly conflicting reports, let’s get back to basics. First, let's separate housing into single family homes, multi-family units, and large apartment buildings. Single family homes, particularly near dense and economically vibrant metros, are far more supply constrained. In contrast, multi family units / apartment towers are, barring regulatory issues (see California), less constrained by available land. See Hudson Yards in NYC, the Seaport area in Boston, the Wharf in DC, etc. It's worth noting that due to costs / market demand most of these developments cater to the entry level luxury category and above, but they are new supply.
I actually wound up looking at US Census projections to get a sense of the long term outlook. By 2030 the Census estimates the population will grow from 334.5 million to 359.4, for a total increase of 24.9 million or an annual increase of 2.49 million (8). In 2019 the Census estimated 888,000 private single family units and 403,000 units in buildings w/ 2+ units were constructed for a grand total of 1,291,000 units (9). The average number of people per US household is 2.52 (10). Some simple math suggests that if we assume each new single family home contains the average number of Americans and each apartment conservatively contains only a single person we get 888,000 * 2.52 + 403,000 = ~2.64 million.
Now, talking about averages in a national real estate market reminds me of a joke about Mars: on average it's a balmy 72 degrees. But the point still stands that at a high level, theoretical sense there is sufficient "housing" for the US population. The question, as always, is at what price and location?
 
Real estate is a safer investment than the stock market!
This one honestly irritates me. While there are many advantages to real estate I can see, safety is not one of them. It is a highly leveraged, illiquid, extremely concentrated asset when bought individually (i.e not in a REIT). Let’s use an example here. Is there a financial advisoy in the world who would recommend you put your entire investment portfolio in Berkshire Hathaway? Of course not, diversification is the bedrock of modern personal finance. And yet Berkshire Hathaway is an extremely diversified asset manager with well run and capitalized companies ranging from Geico to Berkshire Homes to Berkshire Energy. Oh, and it also has $130 billion (with a B) in cash equivalents.
I honestly think this impression stems from 3 factors:
 
You won’t build your wealth in the stock market
One common theme I’m already noticing listening to podcasts, reading blogs, etc. is that many people started investing in the aftermath of the Great Financial Crisis (2009 - 2011). And, in retrospect, it was clearly a great time to buy property! But it was also a great time it turns out to buy almost every investment.
I plugged in the average annual return of the S&P 500 from December 2009 to December 2019 with dividends reinvested (and ignoring the 15-20% long term tax on dividends) (12). It was 13.3%. If you managed to buy at the market bottom of Feb 2009 it was 15.8%!
The long term annual average of the S&P 500 from 1926 - 2018 is ~10-11% (with dividends reinvested). (13). The S&P has never lost money in a 30 year period with dividends reinvested, see the fantastic book Stocks for the Long Run (14). In fact, if you’re investing before 30 the worst 35 year period (i.e. when you would turn 65) is 6.1% (15).
Housing, in general, has tracked at or slightly above inflation ( 16). Even a click bait CNBC article (17) about “skyrocketing” home prices states that homes are rising 2x as fast as inflation (i.e. ~4%). If you look at the CNBC chart for inflation adjusted prices, you’ll see a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 2.3% from 1940 to 2000. Let’s do this same exercise again with the Average Sales Price of Homes from Fred (i.e. Fed economic data) (18). In Q1 1963 the average sales price of a house was $19,300. In Q4 2019 it was $382,300. That is a CAGR of ~5.38% over ~57 years.
Another thing to keep in mind is that while real estate does have some tax advantages, there are also property taxes, maintenance, etc.
But it’s harder than that. Because real estate is an illiquid asset. In general, illiquid assets require higher returns than the equivalent liquid asset because of the inconvenience / risk of not having the ability to transact frequently.
 
Case study of real estate purchase:
I’d like to focus the rest of my analysis on an area that many members of BiggerPockets, /realestateinvesting, etc. seem to gloss over: credit. I was surprised to see that for first time home buyers, 72% made a down payment of 6% or less according in Dec 2018 according to (27). This would imply prices only have to decrease 6% to put these new homebuyers underwater, i.e. owe more after a sale than their mortgage. But this fails to take into account costs associated with buying a property, which are substantial at 2-5% for closing according to Zillow (28). Costs for selling a property are even more substantial, ranging from 8-10% according to Zillow (29). This means that sellers only putting down 6% could be underwater (in the sense that they couldn’t sell without providing cash during the sale) with even modest price decreases when taking into account these transactional costs.
 
Obviously there are ways to reduce these costs, so let’s walk through a hypothetical example of the median valued home of ~$200,000.
 
A young, first time home-buyer puts down 10%, or $20k, and takes out a mortgage for $180,000. They also pay (optimistically) closing costs of 2% for $4000. Luckily, they bought in a hot housing market and prices increased 5% (real) over the next 5 years. Their house is now worth ~$255,000. They sell their house and again, optimistically, closing costs are only 4%. This means they pay $10,200. Consequently, after netting out costs we calculate naively that they would make $255k - $10k - $4k - $200k (original purchase price of home) = $41k. Given they only invested $20k of their own money, this is a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of ~15.4%, which is handily above the S&P 500’s average. This is the naive calculation I first made, but as we’ll see it is deeply flawed. First, let’s look at costs.
 
WalletHub has a really nice chart that shows (conveniently) property taxes on a $205,000 home across all 50 states (30). The average American household spends $2375 on property taxes, so let’s assume a little less and go for $1500. So 5 years x $1500 = $7500.
 
For home maintenance, the consensus seems to be ~1% annually for home maintenance with wide variation. We’ll assume that’s $2000 off the base price, so $2000 * 5 = $10,000. (31).
 
For homeowner’s insurance, Bankrate (32) provides a nice graph that shows the average annual cost for a $300,000 dwelling across all states and then a separate chart for costs based on dwelling coverage. For a $200,000 dwelling coverage we have a figure of $1806 per year, so over 5 years we have $1800 * 5 = $9000.
 
Finally we need to calculate the interest on the debt. One thing that I didn’t realize until I looked at an amortization table how front-loaded the interest payments are. Case in point, I plugged in the $180,000 loan into the amortization calculator (34) using a 3.5% interest rate and saw that we pay on average ~$6000 each year in interest vs. only ~$3800 to principal.
 
So lets’s run the new numbers.
You sell your home still for $255,000. After 5 years, your mortgage is now ~$160000 (i.e. you paid off 20,000 over 5 years, or ~$4k per year). So after the sale you are left with ~$95,000. The buying and selling costs remain the same as before, so we subtract the $14k for $81,000. We also then subtract $7500 (property taxes), $10,000 (home maintenance), $9000 (homeowners insurance) which gives us $54,500.
 
We paid ~$9,700 each year in mortgage interest + principle (~6000 interest and $3700 principal). So 5 * 9700 = $48,500.
 
So, net of everything we get $255,000 - $160,000 (remaining mortgage) - $48,500 (mortgage payments over 5 years) - $14k (buying / selling costs) - $7500 (property taxes) - $10,000 (home maintenance) - $9000 (home insurance) = $6000. And we put down $20,000 as a downpayment, for a net compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of negative $21.4%.
 
That is truly an astounding result. We had 10x leverage on an asset that went up 5% each year for 5 years and we somehow lost money on our “investment” of a down payment? Keep in mind we also used fairly optimistic numbers (particularly home price appreciation) and didn’t factor in PMI, etc. On the flip side, this home provided shelter, i.e. you didn’t pay rent. That’s a massive “avoided” cost and I don’t mean to minimize it. But the point here is that many homebuyers I’ve spoken to fail to account for the substantial costs of home ownership and expect their primary resident to generate a substantial return.
 
Now, of course, for real estate investing you would likely either a) hold the property for less time and attempt to flip it via forced appreciation or b) have tenants in the property. Let’s focus on b) because frankly that’s more of my interest. From what little research I’ve done flipping houses requires much more time that’s incompatible with my day job.
 
I went ahead and used the rental price calculator I found online at (36) to calculate the return. I used a rent of $1300 monthly, a bit lower than the average national rent of $1476 (35) because our home price was also lower than the national average. I assumed a low vacancy rate of 5%, and no other expenses beyond the ones cited above (i.e. I didn’t assume property management, higher loan interest rate, higher property taxes).
 
The calculator spit back a 5 year internal rate of return (a metric in this case useful to compare against the securities markets) of 27.79% return, i.e. a profit of $63k on an initial investment of $20k. The IRR as I understand it captures the time value of money, basically accounting for when you made various returns (37). E.g if an investment over 30 years pays nothing then gives you a lump sum payment at the end that’s very different than if it pays 1/30th of that lump sum every year. It’s useful in this case for comparing against the stock market because the IRR takes all future cash flows back to a net present value of 0, i.e. as if we invested all the money immediately.
 
&Now let’s do some scenario modeling (originally we had 10% down, 3.5% interest rate for an IRR of ~28%):
This scenario for me demonstrated a number of interesting properties.
 
 
401k analysis
As I mentioned above, one of the big questions around real estate investing that I rarely see asked is “is it an appreciably better investment than the alternatives”? For W2 workers, which is ~50% of private sector workers, this question becomes even more pertinent because 401ks have massive tax benefits. In fact, only 33% of US households own taxable accounts outside of a 401k, which means the vast bulk of US households either have no accounts, 38%, or own only a retirement account like a 401k, 29%, according to (39). Let’s assume we have a middle to upper middle class worker making ~70k (this puts them roughly at the 75% percentile). They want to invest, and see two options:
 
At a salary of $70k and assuming you took the $12k standard deduction, you would still see much of your income fall into the 22% tax bracket. While certain states charge no income tax, they generally make it up in much higher sales / property taxes, so let’s also assume a 3% state income tax (40). This means that if you invest $19,500 in a 401k (the maximum in 2020) that’s equivalent to only $14,625 post-tax (because the $19,500 would be taxed ~25% before it got to you). That leaves almost $6000 when compared with the down payment figure above, which is coincidentally the exact IRA contribution limit for 2020! The math for deductions for the IRA gets painful, but we can assume a deduction of ~$1500 (i.e. 25% of 6000). Now, if your work offers an HSA it gets even better, because those contributions are tax-free even from social security (which is typically a 6.2% tax) + medicaid (1.45%). This means that if you contribute the $3500 limit, that’s equivalent to only $2300 post-tax.
 
This is getting rather long, so for the sake of simplicity we can basically say that in lieu of putting down a $20,000 post-tax downpayment on an investment property you could instead invest $19500 + $6000 + $3500 = $29000 into the stock market. What’s more, fees for well managed 401ks through Vanguard, Schwab are often ~0.25% (i.e. $72 annually on the $29k above).
 
If we assume the average S&P 500 index returns of 10% (we’ll ignore the $72 annually in expenses and of course there are no taxes), we would see $29k compounded over 5 years = $47,809. Since we’re investing the money all immediately, this is (I believe) more or less equivalent to the IRR rate.
 
So, what do we need to achieve to beat that return with our investment property? Well, we previously assumed a blistering 5% real home price appreciation. With inflation at ~2%, that’s a nominal 7% home price appreciation. According to both Zillow and Core logic, Idaho is the state with the fastest home appreciation values pre-COVID at ~9%. We’re essentially predicting close to this level for 5 years, which is quite rare. In August 2019, US home prices nationally were gaining ~2.6% according to (41).
Let’s plug those numbers into our rental property calculator from above. At a 10% down payment, 3.5% interest rate, and 2.6% home price appreciation we see an IRR of 18% per year. Game, set, match, real estate, right?
 
Well, sort of. Right now we are assuming optimistic projections about maintenance (1%), closing costs (2%), and selling costs (4%). What if we bump those up to the averages cited by Zillow (3% and 8%)? Uh-oh, now we’re down to 12.38%. Okay, but what if we assume rent goes up by the same amount, ~2%? Great! Now we’re back up to 14% IRR. But if we assume all the other expenses like home insurance and maintenance go up 2% a year as well, we’re back down to 11%.
 
We could go on forever, but the point is that real estate (particularly for rental properties) are extremely sensitive to assumptions you make on a number of factors. Given the risk, illiquidity, and work involved with a real estate property I would want to see a substantially higher return than the tax advantaged, hands off 10% my 401k gives me. I didn’t even include the typical 3% match for the 401k, which would have added $2100 to the initial investment amount and increased the 5 year return to $51,272.
 
The bottom line in my mind is that for most W2 workers who have access to pre-tax investments, they should max them out first. If you’re lucky enough to be able to max out all of the above pre-tax accounts + get a 3% match (i.e. $31k total) every year, after 15 years at a 10% return you’ll have $1.2 million. In 30 years you’ll have $6.8 million. And again, keep in mind that maxing out your pre-tax accounts only “costs” you ~$20k, because that’s what you would get after taxes. And you’ll have “made” those millions without spending a single hour outside of your day job working.
 
Based on the above analysis and calculations, here’s what I’ve come away with as a newbie to real estate investing:
 
Some thoughts on the future:
Forecasting is always risky, but at the same time we all have to form an opinion on where the future is headed. My general thoughts are that crisis tend to accelerate existing trends rather than create new ones. There were already recession concerns in late 2019, and US GDP growth expectations had been downgraded to ~2.0% by the OECD even before COVID (45), albeit with slight optimism around the Phase 1 trade deal with China. Geopolitical tension and capital controls in China had led to mainland Chinese investors slowing their investments in US real estate and increasing dispositions (47).
From my point of view, I’m interested in seeing how the market reacts over the next 3-6 months. Do sellers react by rapidly putting properties on the market before it’s “too late”? Are there enough prime buyers given the tightening credit, particularly for expensive coastal markets, to absorb a spike in listings? As Warren Buffett once said: “"At rare and unpredictable intervals...credit vanishes and debt becomes financially fatal. A Russian-roulette equation--usually win, occasionally die--may make financial sense for someone who gets a piece of a company's upside but does not share in its downside.” We shall see.
Sources:
submitted by cooleddy89 to investing [link] [comments]

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